The ridiculous violence in N.O.

"Big into education" would be putting it mildly, heh.

How can education overcome these obstacles?

Well, it can't. Not alone. I'm generally not a fan of compartmentalizing or isolating influences and making changes, expecting one alone to improve the system.

The more complex the system, the more variables - and the more complex the approach. And the more multifaceted the solutions.

I'll mention a name here if you're interested: Loic Wacquant. He's a sociologist who has done a LOT of work and writing on this topic. He might strike you as a bit extreme, but he does a really good job, I think, of presenting the manner in which this situation isn't solely because of crumbling schools.

Likewise, it won't be fully alleviated by rebuilding those school.

Improving a school isn't going to be the answer. But it's a huge part of it.

I see a lot of people in this thread saying "These kids need to value education."

Here's the thing: a lot of these kids do value education. Or say they value education. Here's another recommendation: Ain't No Makin It: Aspirations and Attainment in a Low Income Neighborhood.

Jay Macleod's work is so powerful. And I found the same thing he did with the kids I worked with - they ALL valued school. They talked about the importance of education. But the system around them really didn't empower them educationally. Or the system cast them out. Or they cast themselves out. Etc.

I don't think it's the attitude, generally speaking.

I think it's the delivery on the part of the local boards and the state.

But even that's not an easy fix.

There are studies out there that have shown poor schools outperform private schools.

What were the 2 primary factors, according to researchers?

1. quality of teachers - teacher certification, teacher latitude, teacher talent, etc

2. progressive curriculum that was contemporary and reflected changes in the world around them as opposed to static, turn-back-the-clock methods that are outdated (e.g. rote memorization vs. critical thinking skills; lack of incorporation of contemporary texts/media forms, etc)

Unfortunately, Louisiana is moving backwards in both areas. It's discouraging to see for a system I still care about very much and follow closely. And did my PhD research in.

But that won't do it alone.

We're talking an intersection of education, sociological support systems, libraries/information access, healthcare, employment/opportunity, etc.

Most sociologists point to that.

Now - what is my solution?

I don't have one. I have ideas for things that would help - but I don't think I have the key to unlocking it. NOr do I have the audacity (that our politicians and some posters here seem to have) that I can assert something that's going to work.

We've seen improvement in some areas in other places - we need to research them. We need to implement them, but it's going to take coordination and participation and willingness on the part of everyone interested. Parents. Kids. Cops. Teachers. People who aren't even directly connected to these communities.

It's also going to take money.

I realize you have an aversion to wasting money or throwing money at the problem. I have the same reservation. I become VERY aggravated when I see the administrative waste in education. I felt hamstrung by policies and budgets when I was responsible for our dept's budget.

But I don't know if it's a matter of us not spending enough or a matter of us spending enough - totally - it's just the money isn't getting where it needs to in order to have the desired impact.

And here's the beauty and the curse of our system - a lot of that decision making is at local levels. State and parish. So to start making changes can be done at those levels.

The curse: It's Louisiana. And the track record in things like incarceration and education isn't strong. And I have very little faith in Jindal's administration regarding either because a lot of his recent decision-making strikes me as political posturing for a 2016 campaign.



I can't answer this question. Because I have no idea what went on there. Were they the best of the best? What were the certification criteria? What were the changes in the curriculum? How was the efficacy measured? What were the expected outcomes vs. actual outcomes? What were the hiring procedures? What were the resources/support like? Etc.

I simply don't have enough information here to offer anything constructive - sorry. Anything I'd say would just be a guess and I'm certain that's not what you'd be interested in.

As for how education and how it can overcome the environment? Like I said above, I don't think it can - not by itself - except in rare/exceptional circumstances.

But I do think it's a huge piece of the puzzle.



I agree. That's why I think it's important to provide environments in places other than the homes of these kids. Schools. Libraries. Recreation centers. Shelters. Trade/vocation sites. Doctor offices/hospitals. Transportation.

There are things we can do help families - and should keep doing them. I just don't think we can force parents to change because we don't have control over that/them.

So where we can make changes - we should.



you'll find no quarrel here.



Sorry, I had missed your reply. Thanks for taking the time. There was a time when you made my blood boil. I am sure I did the same to you. :)


While I do not always agree, I really enjoy your perspective. This really is a complicated issue and it will not take just one thing or x amount of money to fix. Hell, it may not be able to be fixed. I think a lot of people see it this way. We are dumping millions and billions of dollars into educational and social programs and the problem is just getting worse.


A quote from mister pc...

When Louisiana is the most incarcerated place in the world and we have not seen a reduction in the problems, I have to ask, "where are the benefits"?


The same can be said for the amount for money being dumped into resolving the problem. Many people are asking "where are the benefits"?
Will it take some drastic reform? It seems that nothing we do helps. Everybody has their thoughts and suggestions and methods.

Are the low income projects themselves the problem? Is putting so many low income people in one big neighborhood a smart thing to do? Why does it seem that all projects are filled with black people? I do not recall ever seeing white projects but I know there are a lot more poor white people than there are poor black people. Is smarter public housing part of the solution?


Not being in the education field, I do not fully understand the idea that higher quality teachers making a difference. At least not in the inner city projects. I wish I would have saved the articles on that failing school I had mentioned. You asked a lot of questions I could not answer about the staff and the methods. I do recall that they interviewed for every position and a premium salary was offered to higher degreed teachers with more experience. Every teacher was hand picked and recruited by the new administration staff.

In school districts with a mix of low to medium income, I can see education improvements being more beneficial. At least these kids there can see the light at the end of the tunnel and see other students succeed. Inner city kids can not see beyond the life in their complex.

I should clarify one thing, I agree that better schools and better teachers can produce a smarter student but outside the classroom, the environment in some places is sometimes the final determining life factor.