My last attempt
Well, having studied Scripture related to Revelation a good bit, I'm not convinced the 144,000 means that's how many "get into heaven". If it's not allegorical, the best I can come up with is that it's representative of those entering at specific point in time (the last days or day of judgement), and thus not relevant to earlier history.
That's the point, isn't it (and the trap for those predicting end days)? The Bible's meaning (and, to me, its usefulness) depends on how you choose to take it. But you can't be halfway in if you choose to take it literally, Book of Revelations notwithstanding. Once you say a single part may be allegorical, you're already way down the slippery slope. If you go literal, you have to dance and go home with who brung ya, right?
If you take it as pure literature, it's a tremendous piece of work. Song of Songs? Luke in the New Testament? Good stuff.
If you take it as a historical (and historic) collection of lived history and wisdom, passed down orally for God ( :hihi: ) knows how long and finally put to writing, it's pretty amazing as well -- especially as that view allows you to cherry-pick out some of the crazier Deuteronomy stuff and use the rest for living life. Say what you will about whether it's divinely inspired -- the folks who wrote a lot of the Bible's text had a really keen eye for human nature and behavior.
If you take it (particularly the New Testament) as a rough roadmap on how to live a life, that's not bad either. Other than the Golden Rule (which has chinks in its armor when it comes to human pathologies...and maybe capitalism, among other things!!), it's hard to think of a better pithy guide for life than WWJD -- albeit with its own flaws in the face of facsicm, communism and other forms of organized authoritarian evil.
Of course, this doesn't prove or disprove anything related to whether life continues after death. That said, there are some people who have experienced visions and memories when they've had near death, or actually died and brought back to life. I don't know if that experience is universal, but it does happen with enough frequency to take seriously. Some might consider that evidence. I find it interesting.
I find it interesting too, how some experience an extreme out-of-body experience after technical "death".
Then they're brought back to life and they can still remember the experience. Hallucinogens provide some similar experiences, which might explain how being close to dying provides something unique.
If you're up for having the elements of near death experiences explained neurologically, check out a book by Kevin Nelson M.D. titled
The Spiritual Doorway in the Brain. He doesn't conclude there isn't life after death, and actually acknowledges (or at least gives lip service to) the unexplainable spiritual element of human existence. But he does a great job of explaining what happens in the brain which likely explains each of the many reported common elements of near death experiences (NDE). I really liked that, consistently throughout the book, he faithfully respects the scientific method and doesn't claim things as fact that can't be proven.
Beware though: if you've taken comfort from stories of NDE and want to continue doing so then this book may not be for you.
Tell me this - why would god pick and choose who he helps? And better yet, why would I want to blindly worship a being that allows things to happen to some but not other innocent babies?
...If there is a god, something I can never be sure of, at the very minimal, I don't believe he/it works the way religion has taught us or that he's intervening in individual lives in the fashion many believe....
This goes back to
one of my previous posts...not everyone needs to have a god in the sky in order to feel meaning in their lives. A lot of people do, and that's their prerogative. But to call another person's belief or lack there of "an empty existence" just because they don't believe in some divine source to guide their lives is quite offensive.
If you REALLY want those questions addressed in a substantial way, try some C.S. Lewis on pain and suffering. I fully expect that doing so won't address your questions to your full satisfaction, but it will stir some good thinking that isn't likely to be stirred by a few comments on a football forum. That said, I will offer a personal antecdote in that regard.
Many, many, many years ago, when I was essentially a baby who had recently had a baby, I took my infant-toddler son to get a vaccination series. He was old enough to know deeply that I was his caretaker and protector, but too young to converse verbally beyond a few noun identification words. Anyway, when the pain of the needle hit him, his head immediately swung around to look me dead in the eye with an expression that, mid-wail and through a veil of tears, clearly communicated, "WTF DUDE!! WHY ARE YOU JUST STANDING THERE LETTING THIS HAPPEN TO ME????"
In a flash, it hit me that the gap between my understanding of what was happening at that moment and my son's understanding was infinitely smaller than my understanding of a suffering world and that of an omnipotent, omnipresent, involved God (if such existed). It would have been useless to explain to my infant/toddler the science of inoculation and that its' benefits far outweighed the momentary pain. So too, I wondered, might be the same uselessness of an explanation from God to me of a suffering world.
My thoughts and beliefs have evolved quite a bit since that time but I find the story still works for me as shorthand when considering human suffering in a God-filled world.
At some point, life requires a Kierkegaardian leap of Faith trusting that we will be caught on the other side. What exactly lies on that other side will remain a matter of pure speculation for this agnostic :hihi:
True dat.