Israel (now broader Mid East discussion)

You don't have to believe anything that you don't want to believe, Dave.
I'll believe the truth, wherever I find it.
I truly don't mean to be a jerk -- but I've heard this narrative of "well I just don't believe that" more than once with regard to Israel's actions. It comes across to me more as wishful thinking than a real openness to review the evidence before us.
You claimed they're shooting kids for sport. Kids undoubtedly are being injured or killed in this conflict. It's terrible that it's happening, and I won't justify it, but if they're in a war zone and in a dangerous area, the kids shouldn't be out and about. They should have long been evacuated months ago.

I've already clearly stated Israel overstepped by invading and destroying Gaza, that said, Hamas is accountable for provoking them.

Most examples of kids being shot and injured/killed are young teens. Some of these kids have no doubt picked up guns and joined the fight. That makes things a lot more difficult.

And through all of this, Hamas has not agreed to return the remaining hostages, and i don't think we see any sort of end until the hostages are returned and a cease-fite is agreed to. Regardless who is to blame for the failed peace negotiations, nothing happens until the parties come to an agreement. Until then, we'll continue to witness people suffering.
This isn't about what someone wishes or does not wish to be true. It's about what the hard data points to.
Sure. And is that data reliable?
The vast majority of those slaughtered in Gaza have been women and children, per the United Nations: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn5wel11pgdo
Sorry, but I don't trust numbers from the UN. They've not been neutral in this conflict, at all. And I believe the numbers are substantially inflated to make it look worse than it actually is. Yes, there's no doubt that too many innocent people are suffering, but this conflict is a two way street and the numbers will be verified after this conflict and when neutral observers can come in and accurately assess the total damages, we'll get a more accurate picture of what's been happening.
With too many pictures of mutilated children, torn to pieces, intestines hanging out, heads smashed, limbs missing from infants and babies -- to count - can we really, truly, continue to say things like this?
Unfortunately, yes, we can say things like this if they're true. I hate seeing people suffer like this, but unfortunately it's what war looks like.
Israel kills kids every day with missile strikes, and we're actually debating if Israel would shoot kids in the head??
If kids are in harm's way, they're likely to get shot. As for the missle strikes, i don't support shooting them in civilian areas, but considering that Hamas has been lobbing their own missles and embedding themselves in civilian structures, the outcome is what it is.
How much evidence is enough evidence? We have YEARS of evidence already and we are still questioning whether this is intentional?
Not questioning whether its intentional. I'm questioning the claim that they're killing kids and targeting them intentionally. Young teens can easily be mistaken for a young adult.
I question your vetting of sources if you seriously "don't believe" that Israel doing something like this. They've been doing it for years, actually. You should read about it. This is one article from 2022, but there is one for just about every year as well:
https://www.unicef.org/press-releases/thirteen-palestinian-children-killed-west-bank-january-2022




It's no personal affront - but a challenge to you. I challenge you to consider that what you think you know about Israel's government and the IDF. These are deeply evil actions that will be remembered for a long time to come.

You can continue challenging me, and I'll read and consider valid sources. But I'm not going to trust biased sources.

And ultimately, history will judge Israel's actions. When the conflict concludes, a lot of people are going to try and rewrite what happened, both for and against both sides.
Here is more:

United States Surgeon Mark Perlmutter volunteered in Khan Younis March - April 2024. He claimed that Israeli snipers were deliberately shooting children in Gaza, citing his observation of 2 children who were shot twice.

How does he know who shot them? How does he know what their motives were? Whether they were just or not? Doctors can be quite biased as well.
Another surgeon who volunteered at a hospital in Khan Younis - Dr. Feroze Sidhwa, echoing the same experiences -- "Nearly every day I was there (Gaza), I saw a new young child who had been shot in the head or chest, virtually all of whom went on to die, thirteen in total":


UK Surgeon Professor Nizam Mamode provided testimony to the UK Parliament - describing how he worked at Nasser hospital in late 2024, where he treated children who reported being shot by quadcopter drones while already injured on the ground. He stated that these attacks appeared from all evidence to be deliberate.


And of course there are the personal accounts from the people of Gaza, which many here continue to invalidate:


And how about when Israel just flat out admits it kills kids?
In one incident, a soldier recounted shooting dead a 16-year-old in a hail of bullets, "shooting and laughing".

"That evening, our battalion commander congratulated us for killing a terrorist, saying he hoped we'd kill 10 more tomorrow," the soldier told Haaretz.

"When someone pointed out he was unarmed and looked like a civilian, everyone shouted him down. The commander said: 'Anyone crossing the line is a terrorist, no exceptions, no civilians. Everyone's a terrorist.'"


Other testimony revealed the ideological zeal expressed by some commanders for their actions in Gaza.

One soldier recalled Brigadier General Yehuda Vach, head of Division 252, telling his subordinates that "there are no innocents in Gaza".

"It wasn't just opinion - it became operational doctrine: everyone's a terrorist," said the soldier, adding that Vach also said that "in the Middle East, victory comes through conquering territory. We must keep conquering until we win".

https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/6079/2022/en/

That's not surprising at all. I mean, they're all calling rhe other side terrorists.