1 Gap vs 2 Gap (3-4) (1 Viewer)

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I'm still a bit up in the air about if I prefer a 1-gap or a 2-gap 3-4. This thread obviously seems to favor 1-gapping so I'm just going to play devil's advocate for the sake of healthy debate and conversation.

First off, with a 3-4 one-gap, you have three defensive lineman playing one gap, which always leave a gap open. That means you'll always have one of your LBers pushing a gap. With a two-gap, if all of your guys do their job, the LB doesn't have to push that hole and is free to make a play on the ball versus maintaining gap integrity. Theoretically, once less defender has to be read.

I do think if we keep Will Smith, he'll have to play a one-gap because he isn't a good enough two-gapper. Also, he's a bit expensive so the likelyhood of us keeping him is low.

You mentioned playing Martez Wilson at the SILB position (which is ROLB) - I'm convinced that IF he would play there, I'd rather him in space on the weakside (LOLB). I disagree with putting Wilson at ILB since playing there requires two-gapping the guard (reading him) - and this is after he diagnoses the play. I'm not sure reading gaps is a strength of his. I think you have to play him as an OLB and use his versatility to play coverage and rush the passer. This allows him to become a player that the blocker has to read post-snap since he won't always be doing one thing - like Demarcus Ware does or like Galette probably will be doing.

As for Sheldon Richardson, I'm convinced this guy could be a 4-3 3-tech or a DE, he's that quick. I think putting him over the face of a OT is a waste of his talent though. Tackles have quicker feet than guards and I think he'll have a much better time against guards than tackles.

Good post and great information.

Now that i think of it Sheldon Richardson's strength isn't really strength. Being that he would be required to squeeze gaps once he shoots the gap he becomes a non factor no longer able to recover and squeeze as he would be rode far out of the play.

Hadn't really thought about that until now. If thats the case it would be a waste of a pick to draft Richardson when we have Tyrunn Walker on the team who could compete with Tom Johnson.


Also as far as Martez in a 1 gap he would be consistently rushing the passer a lot more which is why i still like him on the inside. Now if what i think ur saying is correct then u wouldn't have him @ the WILB position instead correct? Moving Lofton to the SILB where reading the gap would be his responsibility. In the bulldogs tape they didn't have Ogletree doing much in those clips. I think Martez would be better utilized in that way. where he can use his height to clog the middle on Drops but also blitz that A gap when his number is called. I still like the fact that if he can learn to use his arms to shed blocks he can be a good be a Darryl Washington type MLB and use his speed to go sideline to sideline. Martez is like a heat seaking missle. See ball..hit ball. I kinda like the thought of that. He doesn't have the pass rush moves to be an effective rusher but when he gets a lock on his target and gets up to full speed the results are nasty. Ogletree looked to be doing the same in those clips.


Now 2 gap then yeah i could see him as the Dog OLB who is far more likely to drop in coverage, set the edge, then rush the passer. I hope he proves me wrong but i haven't seen much natural pass rush ability from him.

However, if i may detour u on the 2gap.

We would need more big bodies..and it would make guys like Tyrunn Walker and Tom Johnson pointless. Both incapable of being 2 gappers @ this point. We also wouldn't need to go out and Draft a NT because hicks and Bunkley could anchor it.


I just thought about something though. Bunkley could be told to gain weight this offseaon and play NT Hicks could play RDE and Jordan LDE.

Only thing i don't like is the trouble the 2gap system can have with the read option....

 

[CaliSaint4Life]

In a 4-3 Hawthorne was a mike will tweener in a 3-4 he would be phenomenal as a weakside inside backer, it's perfect!

Did he play LOLB or ROLB when he was in Seattle?

 

[nosaints213]

In a 4-3 Hawthorne was a mike will tweener in a 3-4 he would be phenomenal as a weakside inside backer, it's perfect!

Agreed.

Great OP by the way. Truly nice work Ellias.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Agreed.

Great OP by the way. Truly nice work Ellias.

Nice work you put into this post. I have a few thought I'll be posting soon (maybe even challenge your opinion a bit ).

Great stuff man. Always been a fan of the 1 gap.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

GREAT post btw, very well thought out

Very useful. Thanks a ton man.

Appreciate it guys

 

[Saints 318]

We need to get some fast players


Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

We need to get some fast players


Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk

We have fast players....but guys look a lot slower when they are reacting instead of attacking.

 

[whodatdb]

Is Grantham more of a man or zone coach? cuz I think we fit man better.

 

[Thundercougarbird]

Do you guys think Payton could be leaning more towards a 2 gap considering that is what Parcells ran and Parcells may be who suggested the move to the 34?

 

[TruSaint]

Did he play LOLB or ROLB when he was in Seattle?

Actually all 3 he as moved around constantly, middle, weakside in the regular 4-3 and strong in the 4-3 under

 

[WhoDat!5]

Do you guys think Payton could be leaning more towards a 2 gap considering that is what Parcells ran and Parcells may be who suggested the move to the 34?

You took the words out of my mouth. I was thinking the same thing, but I think he will go with what will work with our personel. Also, if 2-gap is really as susceptible to the read option as it sounds, I think 1-gap is the way to go.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Do you guys think Payton could be leaning more towards a 2 gap considering that is what Parcells ran and Parcells may be who suggested the move to the 34?

Yes i do..thats why i think Crennel will be looked @ maybe a college coach or 2.

However i think if u look@this roster...to go through the changes without having huge turnover the 1 gap is the best way to go. At least we have lineman that fit so far. Tom Johnson, Akiem Hicks, Cam Jordan, Broderick Bunkley Tyrunn Walker can all be used in a 3-4 1 gap.

2 gap Tyrunn and Johnson would not be adept @ 2 gapping. Bunkley could gain weight to play nose in theory but it would be a waste of Walker and Johnsons natural ability to penetrate the backfield. We might as well use these guys to our advantage.

 

[IceHot]

I still think we are going to try and get a laterally faster 34 OLB in Free Agency. I just dont see us matching up well against edge rushing. I see us doing well against the interior running game in our division, but there are still a lot of conference teams that will beat us to the outside an expose our moderate to poor tackling DBs.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I still think we are going to try and get a laterally faster 34 OLB in Free Agency. I just dont see us matching up well against edge rushing. I see us doing well against the interior running game in our division, but there are still a lot of conference teams that will beat us to the outside an expose our moderate to poor tackling DBs.

Or the Draft to get an edge rusher. Someone liek Brandon Jenkins would be very useful. Blidi Wreh Wilson would be a nice fit too @ CB. Guy is long and has ball skills and hes physical.

 

[CaliSaint4Life]

Now that i think of it Sheldon Richardson's strength isn't really strength. Being that he would be required to squeeze gaps once he shoots the gap he becomes a non factor no longer able to recover and squeeze as he would be rode far out of the play.

Hadn't really thought about that until now. If thats the case it would be a waste of a pick to draft Richardson when we have Tyrunn Walker on the team who could compete with Tom Johnson.


Also as far as Martez in a 1 gap he would be consistently rushing the passer a lot more which is why i still like him on the inside. Now if what i think ur saying is correct then u wouldn't have him @ the WILB position instead correct? Moving Lofton to the SILB where reading the gap would be his responsibility. In the bulldogs tape they didn't have Ogletree doing much in those clips. I think Martez would be better utilized in that way. where he can use his height to clog the middle on Drops but also blitz that A gap when his number is called. I still like the fact that if he can learn to use his arms to shed blocks he can be a good be a Darryl Washington type MLB and use his speed to go sideline to sideline. Martez is like a heat seaking missle. See ball..hit ball. I kinda like the thought of that. He doesn't have the pass rush moves to be an effective rusher but when he gets a lock on his target and gets up to full speed the results are nasty. Ogletree looked to be doing the same in those clips.


Now 2 gap then yeah i could see him as the Dog OLB who is far more likely to drop in coverage, set the edge, then rush the passer. I hope he proves me wrong but i haven't seen much natural pass rush ability from him.

However, if i may detour u on the 2gap.

We would need more big bodies..and it would make guys like Tyrunn Walker and Tom Johnson pointless. Both incapable of being 2 gappers @ this point. We also wouldn't need to go out and Draft a NT because hicks and Bunkley could anchor it.


I just thought about something though. Bunkley could be told to gain weight this offseaon and play NT Hicks could play RDE and Jordan LDE.

As for Martez, I'm saying I WOULD have him at WILB - in the OP, you said you'd put him at SILB because he can cover TEs and use his long arms to keep blockers off of him. I'd rather play him on the weakside and let him use his speed to fly around instead of having the deal with the TE - of course this would mean Lofton would be on the strongside and Hawthorne would be out of a position. All in all, I disagree with putting Martez as an ILB. He's spent a year rushing the passer, he has all the tools he needs; coach him up and see how disruptive he can be.

As for Olgetree not doing much, it probably looks like that because it's a highlight tape, but in a 3-4, the ILBs have to two-gap the guards. It's hard to see that stuff unless you are looking at All-22. I can't tell if he lined up directly over the guard, or to his outside shoulder.

As for our big bodies, Cam is absolutely a prototypical 3-4 DE. I think Hicks can definitely pull it off also on the other side. I think he beats up on the OT all game and eventually starts to win those battles. I think we try Bunkley out at NT but bring in some backup to be safe, and there you have it, a strong 2-gapping defensive line - all done with what we have in house - Bunkley being the only question mark.

Only thing i don't like is the trouble the 2gap system can have with the read option....

((From your OP))

3- The 2 gap 3-4 is weak against the option. If the NT isn't a threat on a play then why have an extra guy block him? If ur NT isn't tying up 2blockers what is he doing? Nothing. IT basically nullifies the NT and that can cause problems throught the rest of the line. If a guard is free to attack a MLB on the second level then pow..disadvantage.

I forgot to address this and I'm not sure I agree with it, but I won't pretend to know everything about it either. How does the NT make the 2-gap 3-4 weak against the read option? The NTs job isn't to occupy two blockers, his job is to maintain gap integrity in both of the A-gaps - he just does it VIA occupying two blockers. It more of a "in spite of, not because" thing. If that guard is free, then that center is manned up on the NT and that's a match made in heaven because the NT has to make that play everytime. Now, the NT has to read the play right and not allow hisself to be driving out of the play , but that's the case against a normal run play also.

 

[CaliSaint4Life]

Actually all 3 he as moved around constantly, middle, weakside in the regular 4-3 and strong in the 4-3 under

I meant when he was playing the 3-4 in Seattle, was he a weakside ILB or a strongside ILB? I know he only played MIKE and WILL in the Seattle 4-3, I was wondering more about the 3-4. Sorry if I wasn't clear.