12 dead in Thousand Oaks California - Shooter killed himself (1 Viewer)

[SigFreudianSlip]

Anti gunners argue gun laws don’t work effectively because guns are purchased in areas with less restrictions and bring them home. If this is the case, why aren’t the less restrictive areas as violent?

Here’s my one question, then I’m bouncing out of this one lol.

Does anyone truly believe that ‘bad guys’ abide by laws and would not get guns? If the law abiding citizens had their guns taken away? Truly?

And does anyone think it would ever fly to be able to get every gun ‘gone’?

I get so many parts of this from the anti gun crowd and agree with so much of what they say, but I cannot for the life of me see how anyone could believe that taking guns from law abiding folks would deter the ones with malice in their heart?

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

You want common sense gun laws, arm yourself. That's the best thing you can do to prevent yourself from becoming a small statistic.

The guy suffered from PTSD but that's not enough to take his rights away. If there was something more going on then his rights should have been revoked. You can't legislate crazy. There is no getting rid of this so called gun problem with laws. The cats out of the bag.

California has strict gun laws and magazine restrictions so let's not focus on guns when the real problem is obvious.

except that every other industrialized country is able to do it with hardly any problem
we fetishize guns
we need to stop fetishizing guns

 

[Saint_Ward]

Define common sense gun laws. California already has a lot of gun laws.

I already mentioned one pretty simple one. If you think someone is potentially going to be a danger, or having real issues, they need to be able to confiscate their guns, and then the person can file a petition to get them back. due process.

I'd like to know more about the ins and outs of what happened in FL, and if Cali even has such a law in the books.

Basically, how to you get guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens, who are on the verge of snapping?

 

[Saint_Ward]

You want common sense gun laws, arm yourself. That's the best thing you can do to prevent yourself from becoming a small statistic.

The guy suffered from PTSD but that's not enough to take his rights away. If there was something more going on then his rights should have been revoked. You can't legislate crazy. There is no getting rid of this so called gun problem with laws. The cats out of the bag.

California has strict gun laws and magazine restrictions so let's not focus on guns when the real problem is obvious.

The first part is silly. That's not common sense, that's just adding fuel to the fire. What if I lose my cool one day? now you've just added another crazy guy with a gun.

I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist to know if PTSD alone is enough to take a weapon away. Besides, LEO's aren't making a diagnosis.. they're just responding to someone having an issue and determining if they may be a threat or have made threatening comments. I don't see why that is a problem.

I'm not even talking about the magazine part. Honestly, I don't know the details of the shooting. I haven't dug into it. I'm speaking on the "mental health" part that people throw out there,but don't offer a concrete solution, or those that blame LEO's for not doing more, when they aren't always empowered to do more.

 

[baron8]

I already mentioned one pretty simple one. If you think someone is potentially going to be a danger, or having real issues, they need to be able to confiscate their guns, and then the person can file a petition to get them back. due process.

I'd like to know more about the ins and outs of what happened in FL, and if Cali even has such a law in the books.

Basically, how to you get guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens, who are on the verge of snapping?

So, you’re for guilty before proven?

 

[billinms]

I already mentioned one pretty simple one. If you think someone is potentially going to be a danger, or having real issues, they need to be able to confiscate their guns, and then the person can file a petition to get them back. due process.

I'd like to know more about the ins and outs of what happened in FL, and if Cali even has such a law in the books.

Basically, how to you get guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens, who are on the verge of snapping?

Except that's not due process. The govt having the ability to capriciously seize your guns, then you have to petition to get them back. And I'm pretty sure that wouldn't meet constitutional muster.

 

[Saint_Ward]

So, you’re for guilty before proven?

I apologize, the Florida law requires a judge to order it.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/...s-seized-lighthouse-point-20180316-story.html

 

[Saint_Ward]

Except that's not due process. The govt having the ability to capriciously seize your guns, then you have to petition to get them back. And I'm pretty sure that wouldn't meet constitutional muster.

Civil forfeiture is a thing, right?

Also, you get arrested and locked up before you can see a judge.

Baker acts are involuntary.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

So, you’re for guilty before proven?

Except that's not due process. The govt having the ability to capriciously seize your guns, then you have to petition to get them back. And I'm pretty sure that wouldn't meet constitutional muster.

I admit my first thought was the only way would be similar to Minority Report I guess lol.

Loved that movie too.

 

[tomwaits]

Maybe we don't send our kids all over the world to fight in non-defensive wars with no clear objective.
Veterans suffering from PTSD is real.

 

[nolaspe]

https://www.businessinsider.com/nra-told-doctors-to-stay-in-their-lane-2018-11

 

[billinms]

Civil forfeiture is a thing, right?

Also, you get arrested and locked up before you can see a judge.

Baker acts are involuntary.

Ok, I was out earlier and had to google what you were describing to make sense of it. In Fla, a law officer can seize guns/ammo for 72 hours under the Baker Act. After that they can petition the court to temporarily suspend your rights to hold them longer.

 

[ChaChingBaby]

This has become a normal thing in America now.

"Thoughts and prayers" means nothing. If the shooter had been dark skinned and/or a Muslim, the right would be calling for violence right now.

This is how every mass shooting in America goes now; suspect murders a bunch of people and themselves. Talk about gun control and mental illness is all that comes out of the mainstream. Meanwhile, the NRA and right wing use that fear to stoke up their base and drive up gun sales. The far right then call it a "false flag" and talk about "crisis actors" and claim it's all some agenda for Obama The Deep State to take da gunz.

America has serious cultural issues around violence and guns. We are going to have to finally come to terms with that and stop ignoring these radicalized people committing domestic terrorism acts. All the talks about gun control and mental illness miss the point of this.

 

[Saint_Ward]

Ok, I was out earlier and had to google what you were describing to make sense of it. In Fla, a law officer can seize guns/ammo for 72 hours under the Baker Act. After that they can petition the court to temporarily suspend your rights to hold them longer.

Well, that was added. The baker act by its self was a 72 hour involuntary hold on the person.. they'd send you to a mental hospital to get emergency treatment and make sure you didn't' try to kill yourself or anyone else.

sorry, I just assumed people knew.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

But Fabio's research suggests that this strict dichotomy between "good guys" and "bad guys" isn't necessarily helpful for figuring out how to keep "good" guns — those purchased legally — from getting into "bad" hands. And there may be modest, non-burdensome ways to help keep guns in the hands of the good guys.​

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For instance, 10 states plus the District of Columbia have laws in place requiring gun owners to report the theft or loss of firearms to law enforcement, according to the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, a group that advocates for stronger firearm regulations. But in the majority of states, no such law is in place.​

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Additionally, past research has demonstrated that a small fraction of gun dealers are responsible for the majority of guns used in crimes in the United States. A 2000 report from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms found that in 1998, more than 85 percent of gun dealers had no guns used in crimes trace back to them. By contrast, 1 percent of dealers accounted for nearly 6 in 10 crime gun traces that year.​

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The firearms bureau knows exactly who these gun dealers are — but they're not allowed to share that information with policymakers or researchers due to a law passed by Congress in 2003. As a result, solutions for stanching the flow of guns from these dealers to crime scenes remain frustratingly out of reach for public-health researchers.​

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