2008 Republican Primary (1 Viewer)

[TPS]

>>You're not "smaller government"?

I'm not government at all. The point is kind of lost in the text, but all those stodgy, old white people sprung to life and applause at the comment about not touching their wealth. Really.

>>That's the weakest "dig" in the history of presidential politics I think you're reading into stuff.

Nope, I watched better coverage than just Fox all night. The whole thing is a salvo at Obama. The idea that hope is simply an idealistic platitude is cynical. Youth and the young at heart (as Obama terms his supporters) want to hope. They want a better America. Like Winston Smith, they know that we could do better and that somewhere just outside of the grasp of time, things seeemed to be better. McCain isn't a dirty fighter nor is he a dirty politician. But the theme in that passage is clear as is the target. Or at least it should be.

TPS

 

[LSSpam]

Nope, I watched better coverage than just Fox all night.

Oh? You let TV pundits explain it too you then? I see.

As far as the statement being cynical, sure. That's why I like it.

 

[Shawn]

You're not "smaller government"?



That's the weakest "dig" in the history of presidential politics

I think you're reading into stuff.

I read the speech, and it's clearly got an intended level of abiguity that uses language meant to appeal to his base, or to a group that he's trying to bring into his base.

Again, the use of "they" and "we" is open to interpretation. You can claim it's about government versus citizenry, but the implication in context is also about what "they" the Democrats want to do to "we" the Republicans.

I'm not as upset about it as I thought I might be, as it's well crafted language created by a speech writer.

But you can't just write it off as a statement about big or small government. I'll watch what he says carefully, because as much as like McCain, if he sells out too much to the GOP, I'll scratch him off my list.

 

[TPS]

>>Oh? You let TV pundits explain it too you then? I see.

Bzzzz. I was out of the room for the speeches talking to my sister and nephew about worldly issues. I saw the dig on "hope" in the Fox summaries and it was obvious. I did later catch some discussion of the snipe on Fox, CNN and MSNBC. After that, I caught parts of the speeches on reruns and then read them today. There was pundit chatter about McCain going after Obama and vice versa and Hillary going after McCain. There was also the question of what Hillary needed to do to get seriously back in the race. Most everyone on CNN and MSNBC noted "economic populism" and sure enough, she's now touting a $9.50 minimum wage for those good people right here in El Paso, Texas.

>>As far as the statement being cynical, sure. That's why I like it.

I'm not sure what you mean by that, but Obama has made it a point to attack "cynics" throughout the early stages of the primaries. I think now that he's reached front-runner status (not everyone agrees, but...) he's going to sharpen his attacks on McCain and link him to President Bush as often as possible (which he in fact did 3 times last night).

Don't hate.

TPS

 

[LSSpam]

I'm not sure what you mean by that, but Obama has made it a point to attack "cynics" throughout the early stages of the primaries. I think now that he's reached front-runner status (not everyone agrees, but...) he's going to sharpen his attacks on McCain and link him to President Bush as often as possible (which he in fact did 3 times last night).

Don't hate.

TPS

So you objected to the salvo at Obama but not the salvo at McCain?

I'm not hating I just don't understand the objection really. It sounded like a stereotypical campaign speech to me. So did Obama's. All I got out of it last night really was "Obama is a better orator then McCain". That's it. The rest of it was largely fluff.

"We should let people pursue the American dream" blah blah blah

 

[TPS]

>>So you objected to the salvo at Obama but not the salvo at McCain?

I believe that I mentioned the preservation of wealth comment. In putting the "b" (salvo at Obama) I had a smiley at the end of it. They say if you use smilies in text, sometimes it helps to translate. You tried to accuse me of reading something that wasn't there in the shot (becuase I said it existed), but now you completely went off the wall in stating I objected to his salvo. I did not. It's okay to attack when there is something to attack. But when it gets ugly and personal, I draw the line. I don't think that either of Obama's or McCain's statements is ugly or personal. And you can attack policy and record without saying that guy has big ears, his wife is a lesbian or her daughter is fugly. I'm assuming you can recognize the difference.

>>I'm not hating I just don't understand the objection really. It sounded like a stereotypical campaign speech to me. So did Obama's. All I got out of it last night really was "Obama is a better orator then McCain". That's it. The rest of it was largely fluff. "We should let people pursue the American dream" blah blah blah

Almost all of what Obama says is "fluff." That's not so bad for stump/victory speeches during the primaries. A candidate is generally not going to be policy-heavy (currently referred to as "wonkish" I believe) when playing to their base. That changes in the general election where specialists are hired to craft policy. Apparently Obama was set to make a speech on economic policy today (according to NPR Morning Edition today). So perhaps he's getting ready to step his campaign up to the next level. The only "specific" I've gotten from him at all in the stump/victory speeches is that he's willing to exchange a $4,000 tuition tax credit for service to the country in various capacities. Again, this is February. The only thing you can compare and contrast is what's in front of you. We don't know if Obama is going to run as a mostly-empty suit high on rhetoric. We don't know if McCain is going to stay true to some of his so-called maverick positions or if he will cave to party conservatives on immigration and finance reform (as suggested yesterday night by Huckabee in his Fox interview). Give the process time, and we'll see where it goes.

Now a desperate candidate like Hillary is more likely to start slinging some "specifics" (ref. $9.50 minimum wage with no increases for Congressmen until low-wage earners get theirs). But she's trying to co-opt some positions to get something back in the public domain and in the press besides her recent string of defeats.

:17:

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[TPS]

btw, here is a direct quote of me:

I typically don't vote for Republicans for President because their handlers, spinsters, etc. turn me off. And it did kind of start last night with the victory speech where McCain resorted to some pro-upper crust classism (they're not going to take our wealth...). But I'm open...

And here is the shot at Obama, which I didn't say I objected to, truncated specifically to the point:

To encourage a country with only rhetoric rather than sound and proven ideas that trust in the strength and courage of free people is not a promise of hope. It is a platitude.

TPS

 

[LSSpam]

You tried to accuse me of reading something that wasn't there in the shot (becuase I said it existed), but now you completely went off the wall in stating I objected to his salvo. I did not.

I didn't "try" to accuse you, I did. But hey, if you didn't object I guess it was misplaced

 

[TPS]

>>I didn't "try" to accuse you, I did. But hey, if you didn't object I guess it was misplaced

Hahaha. What I think you confused was that I said he'd sharpen his attacks on McCain. What I didn't do was make a value judgment. That was reserved for Warner, Mallick and the other old white-breaders (?) in the audience who they didn't show who got all giddy after the other comment. I don't see anything wrong with what Obama or McCain has done to date. When I do, I'll send you a PM so you won't miss the thread.

TPS

 

[TPS]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/13/2008.hopefuls/index.html

Just a little update in case you were still wondernig.

TPS

 

[BullDawg]

It will be interesting to see how the rhetoric goes once the primaries are over. If both take the high road and still deal with specifics, it could be as close as the 2000 election...but hopefully with more "positive" politics from both sides. Both Obama and McCain bring something to the table that could be extremely beneficial to this nation. And I'm not discounting a 3rd party vote depending on who runs. It should be quite an interesting race.

 

[TPS]

>>It will be interesting to see how the rhetoric goes once the primaries are over. If both take the high road and still deal with specifics, it could be as close as the 2000 election...but hopefully with more "positive" politics from both sides. Both Obama and McCain bring something to the table that could be extremely beneficial to this nation. And I'm not discounting a 3rd party vote depending on who runs. It should be quite an interesting race.

I'm right there with you. In a recent "rate the candidates 1-10" thread, I gave Obama a 9 and McCain an 8. Either could get my vote and either could be a fine president. An attractive 3rd Party Candidate (not necessarily in the 'looks' sense) or a quality Libertarian candidate could also get my vote. I'll make up my mind in the fall or when I walk into the booth.

I = undecided voter but much happier with the prospects than I was last month. :17:

TPS

 

[Saint Mike]

It was in the first couple weeks after he was elected governor of Arkansas. He was pulled over for speeding and had a known prostitute in the passenger seat. Huckabee claimed her car had broke down and he was just giving her a ride (yeah, because that is what governors do). I can't find anything on google but I read an article a guy had scanned from an Arkansas paper almost a decade ago and put up on another forum. Been searching for an hour but can't find it.

You sure you're not confusing him with Bill? I have never heard this about Huckabee and I lived in Arkansas during the last couple of years of his administration.

 

[Ozark Mountain Saint]

You sure you're not confusing him with Bill? I have never heard this about Huckabee and I lived in Arkansas during the last couple of years of his administration.

I have lived here all of my 41 years and have never heard that story either..........