2020 Free agent & Draft Wide Receiver thread. (1 Viewer)

Proche definitely has a knack for winning highly contested balls despite only weighing 193lbs.

There were very few passes above that weren't contested that he didn't have to muscle away in tight coverage.

The ability to win even without separation is key on the next level.


I was hoping Proche wold be a sleeper the saints could steal in the later rounds but I do not think that is going to happen. He is one of those ultimate competitors that elevates his game for the situation. When a play is needed he absolutely clutch.

He reminds me of Eric Martin. Not the biggest, not the fastest but a lunch pail guy that catches everything you throw at him.
 
The Patriots being smitten with a WR should be a huge red flag and would go in the "Cons" column for said player if I were a scout. They are awful at scouting WRs.
 
Here's a solid 3 Day Recap of the Senior Bowl practices particularly what stood out from this Wide Receiver group. Which was without a doubt the strongest position group on display at the event.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/senior-bowl-receiver-report

Denzil Mims - Baylor
Denzel Mims has put forth the best performance of all the wideouts here. He has simply looked flawless. A long-legged vertical threat, his immense catch radius has been on full display and stop/start skills are much better than advertised. He eats up space with ease and his size and physicality have caused trouble for corners all week, especially when stacking press coverage at the line.


My take - Mims definitely helped his stock over the past Three days, I was really impressed with his smoothness on vertical routes, and how he high points the ball on contested balls.

KJ Hill - Ohio State
There’s just something about these Ohio State receivers and the Senior Bowl. After McLaurin burst onto the scene with his technical savvy and flawless route-running last year, K.J. Hill has done the same in 2020. He isn’t the biggest or the fastest, but Hill’s quickness, nuance and insane one-handed catches consistently put him on the highlight reel. Take it for what it is, but I had one name pop into my mind while watching Hill: Tyler Lockett.


My take - The Saints do seem to have a thing for Ohio State players. I haven't been as high on Hill as some others but he displayed some nasty route running ability against these Senior Bowl DBs. His short area quickness could be a big asset in the slot; definitely see the Tyler Lockett comparisons.

James Proche - Southern Methodist
Similar in size to Hill, James Proche just didn't quite stack up to the Ohio State receiver this week. Showcasing abnormally large hands, the SMU product made some great contested catches, but for a small receiver, he didn’t gain nearly enough separation consistently. Proche lacks burst at the position, which given his small stature hurts him a great deal.


My take - A guy that has generated a bit more buzz lately; his greatest asset are his large dependable hands; but he doesn't really have the size, or burst to be a high pick. Could be a Day 2 guy.

Michael Pittman Jr. - USC
A receiver who has looked great at times and mediocre at others, Michael Pittman Jr. put together a performance similar to his USC film. He showed more burst than advertised but did get outplayed from other deep threats like Denzel Mims. I heard a scout compare the Trojan prospect to former Cardinals receiver Michael Floyd, and I think that comparison has been very justified this week.


My take - Really impressive size for the position, showed more down the field ability than some expected. A foot injury will keep him out of Saturday's game which is disappointing, the Michael Floyd comparisons make sense.

Devin Duvernay - TexasDevin Duvernay
was able to use his electrifying straight-line speed and superb contact balance this week. He actually looked far stiffer than I anticipated and has also struggled with drops — something he hardly ever had an issue with at Texas. Put as much stock in it as you want, but Collin Johnson, the other Longhorns wideout prospect, had a much superior week.


My take - has size, and straight line speed. Some worry about his fluidity in and out of sharp breaks. Some scouts say he looks stiff. The vertical speed he displayed was impressive, from a straight line perspective however.

Van Jefferson - Florida
Outside of Mims, I’m not sure any wideout had a better week. Van Jefferson was already known for his savvy route-running and quick-twitch ability, but not even his biggest fans expected this type of performance. Dominating one-on-ones, the Florida product battled with the best corners Mobile had to offer, including UCLA’s Darnay Holmes, and still came out on top. As a limited athlete, he’ll likely struggle at the combine in Indianapolis, but this is a very strong start to his pre-draft process.


My take - Older player who might be maxed out physically, but a saavy route runner and technician. A player I wouldn't mind the Saints looking at in the mid rounds.
 
The Patriots being smitten with a WR should be a huge red flag and would go in the "Cons" column for said player if I were a scout. They are awful at scouting WRs.
Even a broken clock...

Proche seems to be the exception and SMU is basically WR-University recently with past wrs like Emmanuel Sanders, Courtland Sutton and Aldrick Robinson all making it to the NFL.

They even have a deep threat (Roberson) who looks like a good prospect next yr.

Why not go with a proven program is likely their thought process here.

Besides Jeudy, Lamb and Pittman Jr., Proche might be the best pure pass catcher around.
 
To add for Superkid's post

Mims does look to have some Josh Gordon to his game.

Hill seems more like a Lance Moore or Willie Snead type of player.




 
The more I study KJ Hill the more I'm coming around to him and buying in.

At first glance I was concerned about his size holding up at the next level, but the smoothness he displays in and out of breaks and short area quickness is crucial for playing the Slot.

The Saints haven't had that quick, twitchy inside route runner since Lance Moore. I think he's a Round 2 guy right now, but if the Saints really love him they'll move up into Round 2.. like they found a way to go up and get McCoy last year. Plus he has the whole Ohio State pedigree thing going for him.. and it seems the Saints love their Ohio State guys over the past few drafts.
 
Interesting that SuperKid's post author said Duv looked stiff, where Schefter said everyone was impressed with his quickness in and out of breaks. I guess it's that time of year where we get all sorts of conflicting opinions - as scouting is as subjective as it gets.
 
Interesting that SuperKid's post author said Duv looked stiff, where Schefter said everyone was impressed with his quickness in and out of breaks. I guess it's that time of year where we get all sorts of conflicting opinions - as scouting is as subjective as it gets.
I think there are legit concerns about how Duverynay's route running and ability to gain separation against NFL caliber DBs will translate at the next level.

His build and straight down the field speed is impressive, but he didn't face a lot of press coverage in the Big-12; and the Senior Bowl didn't have the strongest field of Corners and most of his wins in straight 1-on-1 reps were on straight line routes, not a lot of stop and start, multiple cut type separation.

I trust Ben Solak and the guys over at the Draft Network but a lot of the scouting takes on Duvernay raise the same concerns... here's a different sites evaluation on him WalterFootball which is widely used for Draft opinions on this board
Devin Duvernay, WR, Texas
Height: 5-11. Weight: 210.
Projected 40 Time: 4.48.
Projected Round (2020): 6-FA.

1/4/20: Collin Johnson received more attention, but Duvernay was the Longhorns' most steady receiver in 2019. On the year, he had 106 receptions for 1,386 yards and nine touchdowns. Duvernay, however, faces some limitations for the NFL. He has a running back's build and has some tightness athletically to go along with being short while lacking length. Duvernay doesn't know how to run routes, but his straight-line speed is for real and he is tough. Duvernay runs hard and breaks tackles too. Team sources say they see him as being a very late-round pick as a backup wideout and kick returner.

I think as of now the consensus is that team-mate Collin Johnson is the better Pro-Prospect than Duvernay; but let's see how the rest of the draft process, and combine play out.
 
I think there are legit concerns about how Duverynay's route running and ability to gain separation against NFL caliber DBs will translate at the next level.

His size and straight down the field speed is impressive, but he didn't face a lot of press coverage in the Big-12; and the Senior Bowl didn't have the strongest field of Corners and most of his wins in straight 1-on-1 reps were on straight line routes, not a lot of stop and start, multiple cut type separation.

I trust Ben Solak and the guys over at the Draft Network but a lot of the scouting takes on Duvernay raise the same concerns... here's a different sites evaluation on him WalterFootball which is widely used for Draft opinions on this board


I think as of now the consensus is that team-mate Collin Johnson is the better Pro-Prospect than Duvernay; but let's see how the rest of the draft process, and combine play out.

Duvernay didn't have any problem shredding LSU's secondary, did he? I think everyone here would agree that their defense and back 7 in particular was a pretty good measuring stick.

And yeah, you're right, the general consensus is that CJ is the guy to get. It is wrong. He plays slow in pads and is soft. He's the guy that has not shown anything against top-level competition. Duvernay has only been the man for a year, but he's shown time and time again that he steps up when it matters and against top-level competition. CJ is a mirage - he's a big athletic player where the measurables only translate against TCU and Baylor and their 2 star cornerbacks. He's the prospect that coaches and scouts fall in love with because of tangibles and measurables, while ignoring actual game tape. It happens every single year.

Almost his entire game in college was contested jump balls (because he isn't good at separating) where he beat a lesser CB. He's not going to face those lesser CBs in the NFL. He reminds me of that dude Dwayne Jarrett from USC that flamed out in the pros.

Duv will be the more successful NFL WR. I am almost sure of it.
 
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I'll take your word for it LC you're the Texas guy, and have watched significantly more of their snaps than I have.

If he's there in the 5th, or 6th the value could be there. Going to be interesting to see how much of a "riser" he could be after the Senior Bowl, and post Pro-Day workouts.
 
I'll take your word for it LC you're the Texas guy, and have watched significantly more of their snaps than I have.

If he's there in the 5th, or 6th the value could be there. Going to be interesting to see how much of a "riser" he could be after the Senior Bowl, and post Pro-Day workouts.

Do you think he'll go that late? Damn. I'm on an island then with the Duvernay love.

I'm not a scout nor do I look as closely at prospects as some of you guys who really have great information. I do often find myself having overvalued guys based off of college production. I tend to think that the NFL scouts and coaches get too wrapped up in measurables and ignore productive guys. So you'll notice a lot of my leans are towards players who were productive in college. For every guy like that that I was right about (Poona Ford being successful, Vaccaro being mediocre), there's a Michael Thomas (I was concerned because he wasn't highly productive in college) or a Vince Young ("future hall of famer" I believe I said).

So it's entirely possible I'm wrong. What I will say is I'm more confident that CJ will not be successful than I am that Duvernay will be.
 
Do you think he'll go that late? Damn. I'm on an island then with the Duvernay love.

I'm not a scout nor do I look as closely at prospects as some of you guys who really have great information. I do often find myself having overvalued guys based off of college production. I tend to think that the NFL scouts and coaches get too wrapped up in measurables and ignore productive guys. So you'll notice a lot of my leans are towards players who were productive in college. For every guy like that that I was right about (Poona Ford, Vaccaro), there's a Michael Thomas (I was concerned because he wasn't highly productive in college).

So it's entirely possible I'm wrong. What I will say is I'm more confident that CJ will not be successful than I am that Duvernay will be.
The projections should be taken with a grain of salt because it's so early in the process, but most places I've seen have him slotted 4th - 6th round.

There's still the Pro-Days, Combine, Interview process; you always see guys slotted to go late rounds shoot up in the month leading up the Draft.

As you see guys slated to be 1st rounders slide for whatever reason into later rounds, poor combine, pro day numbers, non football issues arising, health concerns..etc.
 
The projections should be taken with a grain of salt because it's so early in the process, but most places I've seen have him slotted 4th - 6th round.

There's still the Pro-Days, Combine, Interview process; you always see guys slotted to go late rounds shoot up in the month leading up the Draft.

As you see guys slated to be 1st rounders slide for whatever reason into late rounds, poor combine, pro day numbers, non football issues arising, health concerns..etc.

Where is CJ projected from what you're seeing? 2nd?
 
Where is CJ projected from what you're seeing? 2nd?
Draft Network has him currently as their 15th ranked receiver. (actually have Duvernay slotted 13th currently despite some of their scouts being lower on him)

WalterFootball has him as their 16th ranked receiver, projected anywhere round 2 - 4.

I think you also factor just how absolutely loaded this WR class is, in another year Duvernay's college production could have him starting off as a 3rd - 4th rounder baseline but this year he gets pushed down because of the sheer amount of quality prospects at the position.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/prospect-rankings
Walter Football WR
 
Fitzgerald is a guy like Brees at this point, who takes each off-season year by year to decide whether to keep playing or not.

and his sentiment is that he will only want to play for Cardinals. He wants to be around to mentor the younger receivers, and he loves his QB Kyler Murray and wants to keep being a security option for him.

Kingsbury, and management both want Larry back; it's either going to be Retirement or play another Season for Arizona for Larry. He's not going anywhere else at this stage of his career he's heavily invested in the region, and just bought a share of the Phoenix Suns.
 

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