30 for 30: Michael Vick (3 Viewers)

The part where you and your kids kill for the meat, is recreational. It's not necessary. There is some other motivation to shooting and killing wild animals besides the money saved on buying beef.

You probably get a rush or a sense of satisfaction when you or one of the kids hits your target. You probably like the ritual of it all. Cleaning your guns, making sure you packed all the right stuff, buying new gear. It's a sport that involves bloodshed and dead animals. Not unlike dog fighting.

I know how my food gets made (some believe the conditions in which farm animals are slaughtered is worse than both dog fighting and hunting). It's why I can't imagine getting up on a soap box, acting as if I'm above animals being hurt for my pleasure.

See what you're missing is that hunting is for upstanding members of the community and dog fighting is for thugs.
 
I understand your point. I don't agree with it necessarily but I understand it. I hunt and my kids hunt. If we can kill 3 deer a year we buy very little, if any, beef all year. It's a trade off for us. Meat is going to be eaten either way. If you eat meat the same things are going on with your food. You're just paying someone else to do it.

You, like your kids, probably grew up hunting. Sadly, many people in this country grew up with dog fighting being the norm. And while some forms of hunting are legal in the United States, many people still dont see it as morally different from dog fighting. And what is legality? Are you against dog fighting because it's illegal? Would you be okay with it if the U.S adopted Japan's view on dogfighting? I doubt it. So the legality of it isnt the issue. It's the morality.
 
Once I realized that you believe you're commissioned to do god's work, that he hired you for the animal control division - the rest of your post didn't matter. The irony of your predicament is all I can see now. The irony of god miscalculating. Of needing you to shoot the animals because there's no other way to get rid of them once they're here. And if humans never came along? Who would keep the animal population under control?

There is no limit to what we will tell ourselves (and others) in order to justify our actions.

Well played.

It’s always easier to criticize someone else’s skeletons as long as your own closet remains closed.


See what you're missing is that hunting is for upstanding members of the community and dog fighting is for thugs.

Lol
 
Stop lying. No need to exaggerate what he did or why he did it in order to prop up your own actions.

He is not exaggerating....at all....those who have not read the excellent book on what went on and what happened to the dogs that survived may want to (or maybe not so you can continue being ignorant of some of the facts).. I believe it is called the Lost Dogs....
 
He is not exaggerating....at all....those who have not read the excellent book on what went on and what happened to the dogs that survived may want to (or maybe not so you can continue being ignorant of some of the facts).. I believe it is called the Lost Dogs....
The holy hunter said Michael Vick was killing dogs because he enjoyed watching them die.
Everything I've read and heard suggests they killed the dogs that weren't fighting well and wasn't going to yield them money.
 
You, like your kids, probably grew up hunting. Sadly, many people in this country grew up with dog fighting being the norm. And while some forms of hunting are legal in the United States, many people still dont see it as morally different from dog fighting. And what is legality? Are you against dog fighting because it's illegal? Would you be okay with it if the U.S adopted Japan's view on dogfighting? I doubt it. So the legality of it isnt the issue. It's the morality.
I don't spend much time trying to convince people that hunting is natural.....my experience has been you can't convince them just as they're never going to convince me it's not. I would say visit a slaughter house and then spend some time hunting and see which way feels more natural.
 
The holy hunter said Michael Vick was killing dogs because he enjoyed watching them die.
Everything I've read and heard suggests they killed the dogs that weren't fighting well and wasn't going to yield them money.
The "holy hunter" is correct. A witness testified in the federal investigation that Vick would throw family pets into the fighting pit and laugh as he watched the pets get mauled/killed by his fighting dogs.
 
The "holy hunter" is correct. A witness testified in the federal investigation that Vick would throw family pets into the fighting pit and laugh as he watched the pets get mauled/killed by his fighting dogs.
I read about that too. They used bait pets and thought it was funny when they got chewed up. Still doesn't equate to "he killed dogs because he liked to watch them die." Apparently bait pets were used to get the dogs in the mood to fight. As far as they were concerned, all the bloodshed had a specific purpose central to the dog fighting.
 
In case you are actually asking: other predators higher in the food chain, starvation, and disease.
It was rhetorical. It's not the responsibility of humans to control the population of wild animals. I guess it's one of the many things we tell ourselves to justify hunting, e.g. "Without hunters animals would overpopulate." ?
 
I read about that too. They used bait pets and thought it was funny when they got chewed up. Still doesn't equate to "he killed dogs because he liked to watch them die." Apparently bait pets were used to get the dogs in the mood to fight. As far as they were concerned, all the bloodshed had a specific purpose central to the dog fighting.
Still doesn't equate to "he killed dogs solely because he liked to watch them die."
 
It was rhetorical. It's not the responsibility of humans to control the population of wild animals. I guess it's one of the many things we tell ourselves to justify hunting, e.g. "Without hunters animals would overpopulate." ?

You are right that it isn’t our job. But without us, animals would overpopulate. That’s a dumb purpose for hunting mind you despite many organizations and governments doing a lot of work to use hunters for that purpose.

I don’t think justification for eating or feeding your family is needed though. Just me though.
 
Still doesn't equate to "he killed dogs solely because he liked to watch them die."
In the doc, Vick was forthcoming about the why. So there's no reason to embellish or speculate. That part surprised me a lot. I didn't think he would be that... talkative. I figured it would be told from the director's POV. But they asked the questions and he answered them. In a very straightforward, no BS kinda way.
 
You are right that it isn’t our job. But without us, animals would overpopulate. That’s a dumb purpose for hunting mind you despite many organizations and governments doing a lot of work to use hunters for that purpose.

I don’t think justification for eating or feeding your family is needed though. Just me though.
Human beings deciding what's considered over-populous as it relates to wild animals is relative (mostly to us wanting to overtake their spaces). I didn't realize governments were leading some of those efforts but it makes sense. We want something, we move in and decide there are too many natives there (be it animals or people) so we declare they are 'overpopulated' and must die. But that's a whole other conversation.
 

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