30 years since Hebert holdout (1 Viewer)

[black_floyd]

Lol... Bobby was not a good QB. I understand the love for the native son, but let's get real here. No one was kicking down the door to have him as their QB in an era of bad QBs.

Montana
Young
Aikman
Favre
Moon
Marino
Elway
Kosar
Esiason
Kelly
Krieg
White
Jaworski
Cunningham (he's in this list for his overall play, not just passing)

Yep. Pretty hard to find quality in that list. But yeah, Hebert was not good. I just disagree with your assessment of that era as bad since it was the largest collection of good QBs the league has ever seen at once.

 

[black_floyd]

If you define ‘the Saints of today’ as , let’s say, the last 5 years- then the point still stands, this team has won multiple playoff games, and sniffed the Super Bowl a couple times- where, again,, the late 80s Saints couldn’t even get past a wildcard once.. Not even a comparison IMO.

We've been to one NFC CG since 2009. You've gotta have a damn good nose to smell the SB from the divisional round.

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

Hebert was an average starting quarterback. He had below-average receivers to work with. The team was built on a dominant defense and good running game. The year Hebert held out was the year the Saints seemed poised to challenge San Francisco. For that reason, after Fourcade faltered, his holdout led Finks to make the Walsh trade, which was a horrible trade.

I am not an Hebert fan. His agent later steered Morten Anderssen to Atlanta. There were the airplane antics Hebert engaged in as a Falcon against the Saints. And I think him today as a broadcaster a regional embarrassment.

 

[MLU]

Montana
Young
Aikman
Favre
Moon
Marino
Elway
Kosar
Esiason
Kelly
Krieg
White
Jaworski
Cunningham (he's in this list for his overall play, not just passing)

Yep. Pretty hard to find quality in that list. But yeah, Hebert was not good. I just disagree with your assessment of that era as bad since it was the largest collection of good QBs the league has ever seen at once.

Kosar, Esiason, Krieg, White, Jaworski were roughly the same caliber of QB as Hebert with much better supporting situations. Aikman is the most over-hyped QB in the HOF. He played with arguably the best supporting cast ever assembled on one roster. All of those guys are better than Bobby.

You're making my point for me...

 

[black_floyd]

Kosar, Esiason, Krieg, White, Jaworski were roughly the same caliber of QB as Hebert with much better supporting situations. Aikman is the most over-hyped QB in the HOF. He played with arguably the best supporting cast ever assembled on one roster. All of those guys are better than Bobby.

You're making my point for me...

Post some stats to back up your claim before just generalizing.

 

[MLU]

Post some stats to back up your claim before just generalizing.

Stats are a terrible and lazy way to tell a story. Rules change. Offensive philosophies change. One can post the same stats and argue different points. You have to watch them play. This is how you have a guy on a 7-9 team win the MVP. It's because someone actually watched the games and didn't just compile data from the box scores.

Also, I didn't generalize. I very specifically named QBs who were not very good.

 

[clarencebeakes]

Not signing Bobby Hebert in '90 after he was benched for last 3 games of '89 was not a bad idea. However, the Steve Walsh trade ('91 1st/3rd + '92 2nd) was the dumbest thing that the Saints organization ever did---even dumber than hiring Ditka, trading entire draft + following year's #1 for Ricky Williams, or drafting Russell Erxleben w/ 11th overall pick in '79.

Hindsight is 20/20, but you have to wonder how many more games the '90 Saints would have won w/ Hebert starting instead of Fourcade or Steve Walsh. That team was loaded everywhere else. Sadly, we will never know.

 

[black_floyd]

Stats are a terrible and lazy way to tell a story. Rules change. Offensive philosophies change. One can post the same stats and argue different points. You have to watch them play. This is how you have a guy on a 7-9 team win the MVP. It's because someone actually watched the games and didn't just compile data from the box scores.

Also, I didn't generalize. I very specifically named QBs who were not very good.

You generalized because you just spouted off some names based off your opinion with nothing to back it up. How is your opinion supposed to be more valid than empirical data? And I watched the games too. I've followed the NFL since '88 so I only missed one full year of Hebert starting.

 

[MLU]

You generalized because you just spouted off some names based off your opinion with nothing to back it up. How is your opinion supposed to be more valid than empirical data? And I watched the games too. I've followed the NFL since '88 so I only missed one full year of Hebert starting.

If I say the sky is blue, I don't get requests to provide evidence to back it up. It's because everyone knows it's blue and if they have questions about it, they can easily find the information they're looking for with minimal effort. Arguing about it would be a waste of times and effort. Only someone looking to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative would take issue with it.

This is the same thing.

 

[HobBeh]

Kosar, Esiason, Krieg, White, Jaworski were roughly the same caliber of QB as Hebert with much better supporting situations. Aikman is the most over-hyped QB in the HOF. He played with arguably the best supporting cast ever assembled on one roster. All of those guys are better than Bobby.

You're making my point for me...

Steve Young only won the Super Bowl when the 49ers got a Pro Bowl team.

 

[HobBeh]

Not signing Bobby Hebert in '90 after he was benched for last 3 games of '89 was not a bad idea. However, the Steve Walsh trade ('91 1st/3rd + '92 2nd) was the dumbest thing that the Saints organization ever did---even dumber than hiring Ditka, trading entire draft + following year's #1 for Ricky Williams, or drafting Russell Erxleben w/ 11th overall pick in '79.

Hindsight is 20/20, but you have to wonder how many more games the '90 Saints would have won w/ Hebert starting instead of Fourcade or Steve Walsh. That team was loaded everywhere else. Sadly, we will never know.

Or Mike Buck

 

[MLU]

Steve Young only won the Super Bowl when the 49ers got a Pro Bowl team.

He won a Superbowl when they got a decent defense.

 

[black_floyd]

If I say the sky is blue, I don't get requests to provide evidence to back it up. It's because everyone knows it's blue and if they have questions about it, they can easily find the information they're looking for with minimal effort. Arguing about it would be a waste of times and effort. Only someone looking to be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative would take issue with it.

This is the same thing.

The sky is objectively blue. Your opinion is subjective. Ya gotta tighten up on your analogy game.

 

[HobBeh]

He won a Superbowl when they got a decent defense.

In 1992 they were second in points allowed, and I would call that 1994 defense a lot more than “decent”. It’s not like he ever had to play with the worst defense of all time for two seasons as Drew Brees did.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

the Steve Walsh trade ('91 1st/3rd + '92 2nd) was the dumbest thing that the Saints organization ever did---even dumber than hiring Ditka, trading entire draft + following year's #1 for Ricky Williams, or drafting Russell Erxleben w/ 11th overall pick in '79.

Jim Henderson used to say that the Saints gave up a ‘Lawrence Welk’ to get Steve Walsh.. they gave up “a ONE, and a TWO, and a THREE...”


Apologies to those under 35, who most likely wont get that reference.