5 things Haslett did before Payton (1 Viewer)

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Sounds like one of those clickbait picture articles with that sort of title...

So I became a Saints fan basically around the time Ditka took over as coach......paying particularly close attention to them starting when Ricky Williams got drafted. So really, it was just one major season that I "endured" under Ditka. And even then, it was understood....in my mind....that the Saints simply sucked, so I simply enjoyed the good times (such as a win streak against Dallas that got started in '98....and didn't end until 2009)............and accepted the bad times as "well, they're just not THERE yet".

Then Haslett came along and, within 1 year, convinced me the Saints could eventually be a Super Bowl champion sooner rather than later. Oh sure, the Haslett/Brooks combo gave us a very promising start and then a whole lot of 8-8 and flat endings to otherwise promising seasons......but over the years, when I see things that Payton (very much deservedly) gets credit for........I, as someone who lived that 2000 to 2005 stretch as a fan........can't help but feel like I've seen some of those same things before......albeit on lesser stages.

1. Won a playoff game first.
That's the obvious one. Probably to this day doesn't get the credit he deserves for that, since he only got there once.........but that team beat the defending SB champs with no Jeff Blake, no Ricky Williams, and Joe Horn getting hurt early in the game. You're not gonna find many teams that will win a playoff game without their starting QB, starting RB and #1 WR. And despite those guys being out, Aaron Brooks absolutely flourished that night. Which brings me to ...

2. Had a QB who threw 5 TD passes in the Superdome first.
When people think of the December 2003 game against the Giants, most of them immediately think of Horn's cell phone. Aaron Brooks slinging 5 TD passes (4 to Horn) doesn't really get mentioned...........likely because if you listen to some, Brooks was this imbecile who only ever threw passes backwards.....unless, of course, he was throwing interceptions followed by huge smiles. Yes kids, we did play a little bit of offense in New Orleans before Payton/Brees arrived, despite rumors to the contrary.

3. Did the "QB kneels 3 times, then Carney goes out there for a game winning kick" thing in a huge October game first.
I've watched a fair amount of football in my life........and if kneeling to run the clock down/out prior to attempting a FG has been done a whole bunch of times, then I've simply missed all but a few. But, to the specific moment listed.........in a huge October 2001 road game against the undefeated Rams..........the Saints were tied 31-31, and an offsides gave them a first down deep in Ram territory, with the Rams having no time outs left. Aaron Brooks kneeled 3 times to run the clock all the way down for Carney to tack on the go-ahead score. We would go on to see a very similar scenario play out in October 2006......when the Saints got a first down and Brees kneeled 3 times, prior to Carney giving us what at the time was an absolutely huge win against the Eagles. Could be forgetting an easy one, but the only other similar instance I recall seeing since that time was Eli kneeling 3 times against us in 2016 prior to a walk-off game-winning FG in that ugly 16-13 game.

4. Started a half by "stealing a possession" from an elite offense first.
Nearly a decade before AMBUSH, Aaron Brook's first start as a Saints QB started off with the Saints attempting, and successfully recovering, an onside kick on the opening kickoff of that 2000 road game against the Greatest Show on Turf.....a game they would go on to win (which ended up being very important to their division hopes). Haslett would actually attempt the very same thing the next season in the Superdome after going up 7-0 on the Rams......but, as was the case for much of his post-2000 tenure, the team simply didn't get many of the same fortuitous bounces they got in his first season.

5. Beat Kurt Warner and Peyton Manning in the same season first.
Like all the examples I've listed.......the magnitude of Sean Payton's achievements is obviously far greater..............but, yep, in what ended up being a disappointing 7-9 mark in 2001....the Saints got 2 of their victories over Kurt Warner and Peyton Manning. That was actually the 1 and only season outside of his rookie year that Manning didn't make the playoffs in his career......with his final season as a Colt obviously not counting.
 
You brought back some great memories there. You are absolutely correct, there were some similarities between the two. If you look back at our losing seasons under Payton, they are very similar in record and reasons why we lost (mostly because of bad defense).

I remember the Sunday night game in 03 against the Vikings and we put up 600 yards of offense, and that still wasn't enough to beat them. Our defense was terrible lol.

One thing that separates Payton from Haslett is that Payton hasn't shied away from making personnel changes. That was Haslett's downfall. He stuck with Venturi through thick and thin, and it ended up costing him his job.
 
Beating the Bucs twice the year they won the Super Bowl.

I knew that if we got into the playoffs we’d have been a formidable opponent. Just didn’t make it in.
We beat every team with a winning record that year. It was a team that truly played to their competition. I was convinced if we had just made it past those lowly Panthers that year, we would have made some serious noise in the playoffs.
 
He did do all of that; however, Haslett’s legacy will always be just needing one win out of the last three games, in 2002, to make the playoffs and losing all three. Leaving an injured Aaron Brooks in and a Healthy Jake Delhomme sitting on the bench. Losing that last game to the Panthers 10-6 was a hard pill to swallow...

Remember Donte Cullpepper dropping the snap going for 2 and basically walking into the end zone for the the win starting the 3 game slide...
 
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Well done, Icon. This is a pretty good thread. Flippy is somewhat right about Haslett's legacy. Moreso than that though, I think he will be tied to the Katrina season. That last season was a dozy.
 
He did do all of that; however, Haslett’s legacy will always be just needing one win to out of the last three games, in 2002, to makes the playoffs and losing all three. Leaving an injured Aaron Brooks in and a Healthy Jake Delhomme sitting on the bench. Losing that last game to the Panthers 10-6 was a hard pill to swallow...
We actually had some pretty talented teams in Haslett's first few seasons. Capable of very deep playoff run with a better coach. The running game with a healthy Deuce was fantastic. Great special teams with the Beerman and solid defense in the early part of his tenure.

But judging by what Haslett did after leaving the Saints (a string of terrible defenses both in St. Louis and Washington), and the fact that before he joined the Saints the Steelers defense was on a slide from top of the league to middle of the pack on his watch...you can conclude Haslett wasn't very good at his job and that whatever success with the Saints was more a function of the talent than the leadership.
 
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One thing that separates Payton from Haslett is that Payton hasn't shied away from making personnel changes. That was Haslett's downfall. He stuck with Venturi through thick and thin, and it ended up costing him his job.

It's certainly not up for debate that Payton has had a better overall handle on this coaching thing than Haslett. I just chuckle at times because history often paints it as though......minus the occasional mention of the Dome Patrol...........the Saints franchise was just inept, bumbling garbage until Katrina happened and the 2006 overhaul occurred.........our team barely knew what a forward pass was until Brees arrived........and Sean Payton practically invented the onside kick.

In many ways, Haslett's first-season success ended up being a detriment to him. Like, if he'd gone 7-9 or 8-8 (but the team just overall looked like they were on the upswing, compared to the Ditka seasons)......I don't think many people would have complained. They'd have assumed it was just part of the process. But when you start off 10-6, you beat the defending SB champs 2 out of 3 times.......and you like you might have discovered a future star at QB...........you've set the bar a bit too high for people to remain comfortable seeing multiple 0.500-type records in the years that followed.
 
It's certainly not up for debate that Payton has had a better overall handle on this coaching thing than Haslett. I just chuckle at times because history often paints it as though......minus the occasional mention of the Dome Patrol...........the Saints franchise was just inept, bumbling garbage until Katrina happened and the 2006 overhaul occurred.........our team barely knew what a forward pass was until Brees arrived........and Sean Payton practically invented the onside kick.

In many ways, Haslett's first-season success ended up being a detriment to him. Like, if he'd gone 7-9 or 8-8 (but the team just overall looked like they were on the upswing, compared to the Ditka seasons)......I don't think many people would have complained. They'd have assumed it was just part of the process. But when you start off 10-6, you beat the defending SB champs 2 out of 3 times.......and you like you might have discovered a future star at QB...........you've set the bar a bit too high for people to remain comfortable seeing multiple 0.500-type records in the years that followed.
Moving on from comfortable crony coaches who were not getting results was a hump Payton had to get over too. He held on a little too long during the dark period from 2012 to 2016.
 
It's certainly not up for debate that Payton has had a better overall handle on this coaching thing than Haslett. I just chuckle at times because history often paints it as though......minus the occasional mention of the Dome Patrol...........the Saints franchise was just inept, bumbling garbage until Katrina happened and the 2006 overhaul occurred.........our team barely knew what a forward pass was until Brees arrived........and Sean Payton practically invented the onside kick.

In many ways, Haslett's first-season success ended up being a detriment to him. Like, if he'd gone 7-9 or 8-8 (but the team just overall looked like they were on the upswing, compared to the Ditka seasons)......I don't think many people would have complained. They'd have assumed it was just part of the process. But when you start off 10-6, you beat the defending SB champs 2 out of 3 times.......and you like you might have discovered a future star at QB...........you've set the bar a bit too high for people to remain comfortable seeing multiple 0.500-type records in the years that followed.
Exactly. It was hard for him to live up to that first year, but he almost came close in 2002. I remember we got off to a 6-2 start and one of my uncles were telling me that this is our year. I didn't want to rain on his parade but I wanted to see more wins first.

Looking back on it we lost some heartbreaking games that year: The Falcons at home, the Vikings (going for a 2pt conversion), and the final game against the Panthers that would have gotten us into the playoffs. I believe the final score was 10-6.

It was after the 2003 season that I started to hate Mickey Loomis. I felt that if we would have fired Venturi and got a good defensive coordinator, we would have been a winning team. Mickey Loomis redeemed himself by hiring Sean Payton. So all is well now lol.
 
He did do all of that; however, Haslett’s legacy will always be just needing one win out of the last three games, in 2002, to makes the playoffs and losing all three. Leaving an injured Aaron Brooks in and a Healthy Jake Delhomme sitting on the bench. Losing that last game to the Panthers 10-6 was a hard pill to swallow...

Remember Donte Cullpepper dropping the the snap going for 2 and basically walking into the end zone for the the win starting the 3 game slide...
Leaving the Dome that day was like walking out of a funeral.
 
He did do all of that; however, Haslett’s legacy will always be just needing one win out of the last three games, in 2002, to makes the playoffs and losing all three. Leaving an injured Aaron Brooks in and a Healthy Jake Delhomme sitting on the bench. Losing that last game to the Panthers 10-6 was a hard pill to swallow...

Remember Donte Cullpepper dropping the the snap going for 2 and basically walking into the end zone for the the win starting the 3 game slide...

Brooks playing hurt was a direct result of Haslett breaking the unwritten rule in football - You don’t lose your starting job due to injury. Brooks was given the starting QB job after Jeff Blake went down with injury. There was a ton of lip service out of the coaching staff about a “QB competition” the following preseason. Brooks played exclusively with the starters and Blake struggled with the camp bodies. It was hardly an even competition and clearly set up for Brooks to win. So when Brooks was clearly injured he refused to admit it saying he “straight”. Brooks knew if Delhomme came in for him and played well chances are he’d never see the field again as the Saints starting QB again. Delhomme signed with the Panthers the following season removing the threat to Brooks starting job. Haslett had his moments but his flaws did him in.
 

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