5 things Haslett did before Payton (1 Viewer)

[blackadder]

Brooks playing hurt was a direct result of Haslett breaking the unwritten rule in football - You don’t lose your starting job due to injury. Brooks was given the starting QB job after Jeff Blake went down with injury. There was a ton of lip service out of the coaching staff about a “QB competition” the following preseason. Brooks played exclusively with the starters and Blake struggled with the camp bodies. It was hardly an even competition and clearly set up for Brooks to win. So when Brooks was clearly injured he refused to admit it saying he “straight”. Brooks knew if Delhomme came in for him and played well chances are he’d never see the field again as the Saints starting QB again. Delhomme signed with the Panthers the following season removing the threat to Brooks starting job. Haslett had his moments but his flaws did him in.

That was when I started to sour on Haslett. In years 2 and 3 he did a lot of things like that where actions and words did not align. Clearly, as you said, he stacked the competition in favor of Brooks and stacked the deck against Blake by making him play with backups.

Wherever you stand on the Brooks, Delhomme debate Brooks should have never been playing in those games. I even remember that Haslett said with a straight face Brooks was not injured significantly and there was no problem. Then right after the season he gets surgery...

Delhomme would have gotten the team to the playoffs and from there who knows?

Then it was easy for Haslett despite any controversy. If Brooks was his guy no matter what, Delhomme still walks in FA. But Haslett just did not want to deal...and he passed on a trip to the playoffs over it.

 

[TenTwo]

Haslett was a heckuva football coach.

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

Good stuff. OP.

Haslett gave us a magical season and a first playoff win. Should have done more after that with the talent he had.

The major Haslett flaws I remember:
- Drafted and picked up players that were super athletic with the intent to coach them up. Not a bad theory, except they couldn't coach anyone up.
- His teams quit on him towards the end of seasons. I've lived through some awful Saints teams, but never noticed them quitting. One season, in particular, the team laid down against the Niners and Redskins to finish the season. I dropped my season tickets after that. Picked them up again in 2006.
- Lost the locker room with the cheerleader debacle.
- The aforementioned staying with Brooks to avoid a "QB controversy" and blowing a playoff opportunity with a very good roster that year.
- Never liked his hair.

 

[Doug5984]

He also drafted a lot of terrible LBers. Terrible. (I know he wasn't GM but when he was here we drafted a lot of terrible LBers.... have I said how terrible they were?)

 

[FLIPPY]

Delhomme would have gotten the team to the playoffs and from there who knows?

Delhomme would've won that game against the Panthers easily....

I remember a pass Brooks threw to Horn and almost getting him killed it was so overthrown...

 

[saint_drago]

Moving on from comfortable crony coaches who were not getting results was a hump Payton had to get over too. He held on a little too long during the dark period from 2012 to 2016.

This was one of SP's worst mistakes as head coach. The man is loyal to a fault. He kept changing DCs but keeping the position coaches. That never made sense to me. He never committed to a complete overhaul of the defense. It's a shame that so many years of Drew's prime were wasted by inept defenses.

As far as the Haslett era goes I think people have started remembering it more fondly as the years go by. Those were some entertaining teams and Haslett led the franchise out of some of it's darkest days. He took a 3-13 team and turned them into a playoff team that could beat anybody on any given Sunday. Unfortunately he left the team where he found it at 3-13.

 

[UFCSaint]

We beat every team with a winning record that year. It was a team that truly played to their competition. I was convinced if we had just made it past those lowly Panthers that year, we would have made some serious noise in the playoffs.

That's because I think Haslett was a master at motivating his teams for a game. They always got up for the big games...then lost the ones they should've won easily.

 

[blackadder]

That's because I think Haslett was a master at motivating his teams for a game. They always got up for the big games...then lost the ones they should've won easily.

Yep. Once you saw that pattern I built up a nice kitty with online betting back in the day. Whenever the Saints were underdogs I bet on them and they usually won. When favored I bet against. And won.

It wasn't 100% but I won way more than I lost following that logic because his teams became so predictable to play up or down to competition.

 

[livefromDC]

Brooks playing hurt was a direct result of Haslett breaking the unwritten rule in football - You don’t lose your starting job due to injury. Brooks was given the starting QB job after Jeff Blake went down with injury. There was a ton of lip service out of the coaching staff about a “QB competition” the following preseason. Brooks played exclusively with the starters and Blake struggled with the camp bodies.

That's not a thing in the NFL. It has famously happened in the NFL on several occasions. Tom Brady and Carl Nicks, for example. Heck, in Nicks' case the guy ahead of him was not even hurt. He loss his job serving a couple game suspension. It happens. If the backup proves to be a better player, he keeps (and should keep) the job. This isn't a participation trophy league.

Now, what may happen is that a player loses his spot to a player he shouldn't have lost it to. That's on the coach. But implying that there's some unspoken rule about losing your spot is not true. The best coaches will play the best players. If it takes an injury to realize that the backup is better, they'll take it.

 

[tarusman28]

He also drafted a lot of terrible LBers. Terrible. (I know he wasn't GM but when he was here we drafted a lot of terrible LBers.... have I said how terrible they were?)

He also drafted Johnathan Sullivan, one of the worst defensive tackles in the NFL back in 2003.

 

[latechsaint26]

Sounds like one of those clickbait picture articles with that sort of title...

So I became a Saints fan basically around the time Ditka took over as coach......paying particularly close attention to them starting when Ricky Williams got drafted. So really, it was just one major season that I "endured" under Ditka. And even then, it was understood....in my mind....that the Saints simply sucked, so I simply enjoyed the good times (such as a win streak against Dallas that got started in '98....and didn't end until 2009)............and accepted the bad times as "well, they're just not THERE yet".

Then Haslett came along and, within 1 year, convinced me the Saints could eventually be a Super Bowl champion sooner rather than later. Oh sure, the Haslett/Brooks combo gave us a very promising start and then a whole lot of 8-8 and flat endings to otherwise promising seasons......but over the years, when I see things that Payton (very much deservedly) gets credit for........I, as someone who lived that 2000 to 2005 stretch as a fan........can't help but feel like I've seen some of those same things before......albeit on lesser stages.

1. Won a playoff game first.
That's the obvious one. Probably to this day doesn't get the credit he deserves for that, since he only got there once.........but that team beat the defending SB champs with no Jeff Blake, no Ricky Williams, and Joe Horn getting hurt early in the game. You're not gonna find many teams that will win a playoff game without their starting QB, starting RB and #1 WR. And despite those guys being out, Aaron Brooks absolutely flourished that night. Which brings me to ...

2. Had a QB who threw 5 TD passes in the Superdome first.
When people think of the December 2003 game against the Giants, most of them immediately think of Horn's cell phone. Aaron Brooks slinging 5 TD passes (4 to Horn) doesn't really get mentioned...........likely because if you listen to some, Brooks was this imbecile who only ever threw passes backwards.....unless, of course, he was throwing interceptions followed by huge smiles. Yes kids, we did play a little bit of offense in New Orleans before Payton/Brees arrived, despite rumors to the contrary.

3. Did the "QB kneels 3 times, then Carney goes out there for a game winning kick" thing in a huge October game first.
I've watched a fair amount of football in my life........and if kneeling to run the clock down/out prior to attempting a FG has been done a whole bunch of times, then I've simply missed all but a few. But, to the specific moment listed.........in a huge October 2001 road game against the undefeated Rams..........the Saints were tied 31-31, and an offsides gave them a first down deep in Ram territory, with the Rams having no time outs left. Aaron Brooks kneeled 3 times to run the clock all the way down for Carney to tack on the go-ahead score. We would go on to see a very similar scenario play out in October 2006......when the Saints got a first down and Brees kneeled 3 times, prior to Carney giving us what at the time was an absolutely huge win against the Eagles. Could be forgetting an easy one, but the only other similar instance I recall seeing since that time was Eli kneeling 3 times against us in 2016 prior to a walk-off game-winning FG in that ugly 16-13 game.

4. Started a half by "stealing a possession" from an elite offense first.
Nearly a decade before AMBUSH, Aaron Brook's first start as a Saints QB started off with the Saints attempting, and successfully recovering, an onside kick on the opening kickoff of that 2000 road game against the Greatest Show on Turf.....a game they would go on to win (which ended up being very important to their division hopes). Haslett would actually attempt the very same thing the next season in the Superdome after going up 7-0 on the Rams......but, as was the case for much of his post-2000 tenure, the team simply didn't get many of the same fortuitous bounces they got in his first season.

5. Beat Kurt Warner and Peyton Manning in the same season first.
Like all the examples I've listed.......the magnitude of Sean Payton's achievements is obviously far greater..............but, yep, in what ended up being a disappointing 7-9 mark in 2001....the Saints got 2 of their victories over Kurt Warner and Peyton Manning. That was actually the 1 and only season outside of his rookie year that Manning didn't make the playoffs in his career......with his final season as a Colt obviously not counting.

I was at that 2001 game when we beat Payton Manning. I feel like it was right after 9/11 because for some reason I remember feeling like it was packed more than normal and that Bin Laden was going to make it a target.

I also remember Peyton trying a fake kneel down before halftime and the ref whistling it dead.

 

[tarusman28]

[B}This was one of SP's worst mistakes as head coach. The man is loyal to a fault. He kept changing DCs but keeping the position coaches.[/B] That never made sense to me. He never committed to a complete overhaul of the defense. It's a shame that so many years of Drew's prime were wasted by inept defenses.

As far as the Haslett era goes I think people have started remembering it more fondly as the years go by. Those were some entertaining teams and Haslett led the franchise out of some of it's darkest days. He took a 3-13 team and turned them into a playoff team that could beat anybody on any given Sunday. Unfortunately he left the team where he found it at 3-13.

Well, you have to give Payton credit. He wanted to fix his defense and he eventually did, which resulted in winning a Superbowl title. Besides only 1 of the 3 former Saints Defensive Coordinators that was under Sean Payton are still in the NFL. And that remaining one, Steve Spagnuolo is on his 8th team right now, which is not a good track record. How many previous Saints head coaches had the guts to make that change.

Also Payton did eventually got rid of almost all of his position coaches on defense which helped the Saints get back to the NFL Championship last year. So his means were justified.

 

[Icon]

Brooks playing hurt was a direct result of Haslett breaking the unwritten rule in football - You don’t lose your starting job due to injury. Brooks was given the starting QB job after Jeff Blake went down with injury. There was a ton of lip service out of the coaching staff about a “QB competition” the following preseason. Brooks played exclusively with the starters and Blake struggled with the camp bodies. It was hardly an even competition and clearly set up for Brooks to win. So when Brooks was clearly injured he refused to admit it saying he “straight”. Brooks knew if Delhomme came in for him and played well chances are he’d never see the field again as the Saints starting QB again. Delhomme signed with the Panthers the following season removing the threat to Brooks starting job. Haslett had his moments but his flaws did him in.

I see (absolutely 100% incorrect) narratives occasionally about how Jeff Blake should have been named the starter heading into 2001, or how (to your point) the QB competition should have been handled better.

I personally don't know how the QB competition was handled......as I didn't strongly follow training camp online in those days, and I don't have a strong recollection of that particular preseason.........so I am not in a position to either agree or disagree with that assessment. But instead I'll simply say this: if by "the competition should have been handled differently", you mean they should have point-blank said--- "yeah, there isn't a competition.....we're gonna go with the 24-year-old who slung 4 TD passes without his #1 RB and #1 WR and won the first playoff game in franchise history, because he appears to have an amazing upside and......well, did you SEE that play he made in the Frisco game on the road?"----.............then yes, I agree that it could have been handled differently.

After Jeff Blake left the Saints...........he ended up with 3 of the most QB-needy teams in the league.......the post-Dilfer Ravens, the pre-Warner Cardinals and the "well our rookie QB Grossman is out for the season" Bears. None of them kept him longer than 1 season. I don't know why some people have worked it up in their heads that Jeff Blake was gonna come in and solidly lead the Saints for the next 5-plus years or whatever at the expense of the potential Brooks had shown.........when his post-Saints results would seem to suggest otherwise.

 

[DomePatrol5657]

He also drafted Johnathan Sullivan, one of the worst defensive tackles in the NFL back in 2003.

And, if I remember correctly, we traded up to draft Sullivan. I think we had 2 first round picks and traded them for the rights to draft Sullivan. What a disaster that was.

 

[blackadder]

I see (absolutely 100% incorrect) narratives occasionally about how Jeff Blake should have been named the starter heading into 2001, or how (to your point) the QB competition should have been handled better.

I personally don't know how the QB competition was handled......as I didn't strongly follow training camp online in those days, and I don't have a strong recollection of that particular preseason.........so I am not in a position to either agree or disagree with that assessment. But instead I'll simply say this: if by "the competition should have been handled differently", you mean they should have point-blank said--- "yeah, there isn't a competition.....we're gonna go with the 24-year-old who slung 4 TD passes without his #1 RB and #1 WR and won the first playoff game in franchise history, because he appears to have an amazing upside and......well, did you SEE that play he made in the Frisco game on the road?"----.............then yes, I agree that it could have been handled differently.

After Jeff Blake left the Saints...........he ended up with 3 of the most QB-needy teams in the league.......the post-Dilfer Ravens, the pre-Warner Cardinals and the "well our rookie QB Grossman is out for the season" Bears. None of them kept him longer than 1 season. I don't know why some people have worked it up in their heads that Jeff Blake was gonna come in and solidly lead the Saints for the next 5-plus years or whatever at the expense of the potential Brooks had shown.........when his post-Saints results would seem to suggest otherwise.

I did watch the training camp then and all the pre-season games. While you are right that Blake was near the end of his career, that wasn't known at that juncture.

The setup to fail was pretty egregious. As the other poster said, Brooks got all reps with the 1st team from the get go and Blake saw action with the backups. Blake did not start one of the pre-season games and only saw limited action with 2nd and 3rd team. Just seemed unbalanced in terms of giving him a legit shot to get in a groove.

That play you mentioned against SF was great. I waited and waited to ever see that again from Brooks but never did. He stopped using his legs.