7 year old girl murdered in Houston (2 Viewers)

What???? You are NOT going to try and spin that around that it comes out clean are you?

I don;t know if anyone told you yet. But it wasn't a hate crime.

Therefore US congressional personnel don;t need to go spouting that crap on National Television. Especially when it's false... Therein falls the False Narrative that was referred to. And that is what the Media picked up on and ran with...

That woman was clearly indicating that it was a Racially motivated hate crime and you know it.

and what was her answer when the Press called her on it. "Well nobody took the law into their own hands, so my comment was OK."
We know that now, but when she made the comments the police had a BOLO for a white male in a red pick up.

so, her comment seemed accurate at the time, even if it was getting a bit ahead of its self.
 
He took one line out of my 4 paragraph assessment.

And I'm not being fair?
Was what I said wrong? Maybe I should have been more brief, but I wanted to elaborate.

It (the See, it wasn't a white guy!!!) seemed like it was beyond just "acknowledging" something. Not every comment but some.
You make it sound as if people were giddy at the fact it wasn't a white guy.

I really don't see anyone fitting your description, so yes, I thought it was being unfair.
 
Why is this logic never extended for suspected Islamic terrorism I wonder?

Ask yourself that seriously, because the situations are rather similar. Yet the response by the same sect of people starkly different.

Hmmm, random highway shooting vs mass killing. When the white kid went into an all black church and killed several parishioners, yep, that's most assuredly a hate crime. That's a fair assessment. A white male randomly shooting up a car with black people in it on the highway, not so much. I honestly don't get how road rage is not the most likely hypothesis. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that the first conclusion that is jumped to is race, simply because the shooter was supposedly white & the victims black. Here's some info I found on road rage incidents:

http://drivingschool.net/road-rage-statistics-filled-surprising-facts/
Road Rage deaths per year
Over a seven-year period, AAA found over 12,500 injuries could be linked to these acts. Road rage could also be linked to 218 deaths, mostly deliberate murders conducted by angry drivers. That number has been steadily increasing at a rate of 7% each year.

Road rage is so common and prevalent in this country that it has it's own name, yet what comes first in some of your minds is race and act as if simple road rage doesn't even exist.

There is this very real trend in America by certain sects of the population that seem to feel that being called a racist , or mislabeling something as racist is a far greater societal problem than the vast amounts of actual interpersonal and structural racism.
No, and that's where you're really wrong. I think that mislabeling or jumping to assumptions, especially by the media and our leaders, is damaging to our society and making racial harmony more difficult. As I said, it has a crying wolf affect that throws skepticism over a real and valid issue.
 
Hmmm, random highway shooting vs mass killing. When the white kid went into an all black church and killed several parishioners, yep, that's most assuredly a hate crime. That's a fair assessment. A white male randomly shooting up a car with black people in it on the highway, not so much. I honestly don't get how road rage is not the most likely hypothesis. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that the first conclusion that is jumped to is race, simply because the shooter was supposedly white & the victims black.

And still, what a depressing alternative to live with. Man shoots up car, killing a child - that's road rage in America!

I don't disagree with you. I think the rush to conclusions is obviously risky and so damaging when it's wrong. Especially when so many people are waiting eagerly to discredit individuals and delegitimize a movement.

In the end, all of this is just the latest occasion for us to re-examine how we interact with each other, and how we discuss with one another. Truth is, we are a society of people who often aren't very good at listening and empathizing and trying to understand. It's a failure on all sides. We will move on soon enough to other crises, having learned nothing.
 
It's just weird to me coming onto these discussion forums and contrasting the experience with real life and all available evidence.

By the accounts you hear here, America is a bastion of tolerance and equality and the real problem is over-sensitive liberals seeing racism when it doesn't exist. The real problem, is not racism, but people that are too quick to apply that label to a fading problem. Racism is but a fleeting thing on the fringes of society and the real issue is the groups that make it a centralized focus like BLM, SPLC, ACLU, Antifa, Social-Justice activists, and Democrats. Or people that choose to protest or hypothesize that incidents may be race related. If we just stop giving it over-sized attention, it will go away.

Now the internet is a funny place, so maybe it is insulation, self-sheltering, or too much time in certain echo chambers, but it remains an incredibly out of touch position. And an incredibly contradictory one.

I mean we know for instance that when Twitter started kicking off racists and racially charged trolls, the alt-right created a safe space for their brand of hate(I'm sorry "free-speech") and called it GAB. A mostly American site that has 800,000 active members. The most prominent users being Richard Spencer, various Unite The Right leaders, and far-right conservative voices. We know that all other things being equal, an unarmed black person is more likely to be fatally shot by a police officer than their white counterpart. We know that all other things being equal, a black person is more likely to be stopped by police officers in routine patrols. We know that leading up to the financial crisis black people, in contrast to their white counterparts, were often targeted and forced into subprime loans despite being equally qualified for non-subprime loans. We know that redlining is still alive and well with multi-million dollar settlements over the last few years from a number of the most high profile banks including Chase and Wells Fargo, and successful lawsuits in about a dozen states with smaller community banks. And we know that racially motivated violence is both wildly under-reported and has still been on a notable incline in recent years, with more and more high and low profile incidents. Heck, we know people are racist because every time Google, Apple, Microsoft, and Facebook try and create AI programs that use human internet data, they inexplicably end up a perverted, racist piece of work.

Now if this were Islamic terrorism we would hear cries that America is putting their head in the sand, unable to confront the real threats to safety, not doing nearly enough. Build a wall, stop immigrants from middle east coming in, label terrorist attacks Islamic at the soonest possible moment, stop coddling a violent religion and admit this problem is systemic etc.......But if you do that about America's problem of racism????? Say draw a hypothesis from eye witness testimony that identifies a white male shooting into a parked car at a Wal Mart shopping center? Well assuming road rage is fine, but not racism.
 
a. I think everyone should be a lot more cautious about introducing race into current events until all the facts are known.

b. I think people shouldn't pound their chest with glee on the rare occasions that the people in group (a) turn out to be wrong.
 
But @Saint_Ward

A United States Congresswoman - Calling it Racially moticated before the facts came out.

But to be fair, it is just Sheila Jackson Lee. If you know anything about her you that this is her typical style and what everyone expects of her now.
 
a. I think everyone should be a lot more cautious about introducing race into current events until all the facts are known.

b. I think people shouldn't pound their chest with glee on the rare occasions that the people in group (a) turn out to be wrong.
Honest question, why?

For nothing else in society do we seemingly beg people to wait til the last possible second to draw inferences about motive.

I fully get and get behind the notion of waiting til a reasonable level of evidence is out before calling for your pound of flesh, it's why I stayed out of this thread as long as a I did, even though I don't fault people for hypothesizing when an eye witness pinned the shooter as a white male in a Wal-Mart parking lot. But there is a pretty important meta question about why it is that race, at least for one particular group, is so sensitive that we are actually trying to punish it to the point of suppressing it's mention compared to all other suspected motives. We can assume road rage, Islamic terrorism, anti-Americanism, but to assume race is beyond the pale.
 
Honest question, why?

For nothing else in society do we seemingly beg people to wait til the last possible second to draw inferences about motive.

I fully get and get behind the notion of waiting til a reasonable level of evidence is out before calling for your pound of flesh, it's why I stayed out of this thread as long as a I did, even though I don't fault people for hypothesizing when an eye witness pinned the shooter as a white male in a Wal-Mart parking lot. But there is a pretty important meta question about why it is that race, at least for one particular group, is so sensitive that we are actually trying to punish it to the point of suppressing it's mention compared to all other suspected motives. We can assume road rage, Islamic terrorism, anti-Americanism, but to assume race is beyond the pale.

I call for caution in all things before jumping to conclusions. My posting history backs that up.

I can't speak for anyone else.
 
It's just weird to me coming onto these discussion forums and contrasting the experience with real life and all available evidence.

By the accounts you hear here, America is a bastion of tolerance and equality and the real problem is over-sensitive liberals seeing racism when it doesn't exist. The real problem, is not racism, but people that are too quick to apply that label to a fading problem. Racism is but a fleeting thing on the fringes of society and the real issue is the groups that make it a centralized focus like BLM, SPLC, ACLU, Antifa, Social-Justice activists, and Democrats. Or people that choose to protest or hypothesize that incidents may be race related. If we just stop giving it over-sized attention, it will go away.

Now the internet is a funny place, so maybe it is insulation, self-sheltering, or too much time in certain echo chambers, but it remains an incredibly out of touch position. And an incredibly contradictory one.

I mean we know for instance that when Twitter started kicking off racists and racially charged trolls, the alt-right created a safe space for their brand of hate(I'm sorry "free-speech") and called it GAB. A mostly American site that has 800,000 active members. The most prominent users being Richard Spencer, various Unite The Right leaders, and far-right conservative voices. We know that all other things being equal, an unarmed black person is more likely to be fatally shot by a police officer than their white counterpart. We know that all other things being equal, a black person is more likely to be stopped by police officers in routine patrols. We know that leading up to the financial crisis black people, in contrast to their white counterparts, were often targeted and forced into subprime loans despite being equally qualified for non-subprime loans. We know that redlining is still alive and well with multi-million dollar settlements over the last few years from a number of the most high profile banks including Chase and Wells Fargo, and successful lawsuits in about a dozen states with smaller community banks. And we know that racially motivated violence is both wildly under-reported and has still been on a notable incline in recent years, with more and more high and low profile incidents. Heck, we know people are racist because every time Google, Apple, Microsoft, and Facebook try and create AI programs that use human internet data, they inexplicably end up a perverted, racist peice of work.

Now if this were Islamic terrorism we would hear cries that America is putting their head in the sand, unable to confront the real threats to safety, not doing nearly enough. Build a wall, stop immigrants from middle east coming in, label terrorist attacks Islamic at the soonest possible moment, stop coddling a violent religion and admit this problem is systemic etc.......But if you do that about America's problem of racism????? Say draw a hypothesis from eye witness testimony that identifies a white male shooting into a parked car at a Wal Mart shopping center? Well assuming road rage is fine, but not racism.
You've just completely ignored what I posted to the point of not even responding to me with a quote and simply repeating what you previously said in a much more lengthy post.

I wish I had more time to address this discussion, but I simply don't. Not if I want to continue to get paid. I can't just keep repeating myself in different and more defined ways. My New Year's resolution was to stay out of these threads for these very reasons. I've already broken that, but thank you for the sharp reminder of why I should stick with that resolution for good.
 
I call for caution in all things before jumping to conclusions. My posting history backs that up.

I can't speak for anyone else.
Right and so do I, my point is toward the larger conversation this thread(and the dozens of others that preceded and will no doubt follow this one in the weeks to follow) evokes.

If caution is your mantra and you stick to it, thats a good thing, I personally try to do so myself. But thats rarely how the cycle of these things work. There is a pattern and a normative framework that seems to diverge and uniquely govern a situation based on who and what the suspected motive is.

America has done a poor job finding a framework for this discussion, and often I see threads like this completely sidestep it. This is just me bringing attention to it in hopes
 
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Hmmm, random highway shooting vs mass killing. When the white kid went into an all black church and killed several parishioners, yep, that's most assuredly a hate crime. That's a fair assessment. A white male randomly shooting up a car with black people in it on the highway, not so much. I honestly don't get how road rage is not the most likely hypothesis. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that the first conclusion that is jumped to is race, simply because the shooter was supposedly white & the victims black. Here's some info I found on road rage incidents:

Road rage is so common and prevalent in this country that it has it's own name, yet what comes first in some of your minds is race and act as if simple road rage doesn't even exist.

No, and that's where you're really wrong. I think that mislabeling or jumping to assumptions, especially by the media and our leaders, is damaging to our society and making racial harmony more difficult. As I said, it has a crying wolf affect that throws skepticism over a real and valid issue.

I believe that road rage was never one of the primary suspected motives because there was no reason or indication that road rage would have been prompted. It wasn't a busy road, there was no interaction between the drivers, there was no accident, there wasn't any yelling back and forth. Basically, there was nothing initially to indicate that it would be a prime motive in the case.

That's the very reason that it was initially suspected that it was a hate crime. I remember that road rage was ruled out pretty quickly initially.

And just to make a point, it's the wrong motive. Just like a hate crime was the wrong motive. So even if you suspected or thought it could have been road rage, you where also wrong. Just like those that thought it might have been a hate crime.
 

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