7 year old girl murdered in Houston (1 Viewer)

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https://ktla.com/2018/12/31/manhunt-on-for-gunman-who-killed-7-year-old-girl-outside-a-houston-area-walmart/

CNN affiliate KTRK reported. Deputies said the suspect pulled up next to the car and opened fire.


Gonzalez said the girl’s mother, LaPorsha Washington, 30, was wounded. The sheriff’s office said glass fragments injured a younger child. Two teens were unharmed.


The mother and daughter are black. The suspect, who authorities are describing as a white male in his 40s, fled the scene in a red truck.
I hope they find this disturbed individual. Maybe this was just a road rage incident, but the racial overtones are quite obvious.

I don't know what to say beyond that except it's bitterly disappointing that lives are so valueless to some people.
 

Saint_Ward

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I think you're being a little unfair of your characterization of the response. You make it sound as if people were giddy at the fact it wasn't a white guy. But regardless, I think it's fair that some feel a little validated with that fact. And please don't mistake me trying to call that a win. There truly are no winners here. I just want fair assessments made and the full weight of Justice to be brought down upon the guilty, no matter who they may be.
He took one line out of my 4 paragraph assessment.

And I'm not being fair?
 

Joe OKC

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If a black suspect randomly shot at white people in traffic, it would be major news.
But @Saint_Ward

But one thing is different. A nationally Known Entity that garners National Press Coverage in everything that they Do... Black Lives Matter.. was quick to jump on the Shooting was Racist bandwagon in the beginning.. Instead of waiting until all evidence had been gathered, reported and the investigation was complete.

As I linked before. NPR said BLM was claiming it was A Racist Motivated killing before a killer was found.

And then this from the New York Times

“Do not be afraid to call this what it seems to be — a hate crime,” Representative Sheila Jackson Lee, a Houston Democrat, told hundreds of people at a rally last week near the site of the killing.
A United States Congresswoman - Calling it Racially moticated before the facts came out.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/06/us/jazmine-barnes-eric-black-killing.html

and look who was representing the Family of the deceased.

Lee Merritt, a lawyer who represents Jazmine’s family as well as relatives of several African-American victims of high-profile police shootings,
Yes. I am sure that the family was thankful to have legal representation as quickly as possible and at no cost... But this could almost be construed as Ambulance Chasing here. A High Profile lawyer who is gaining national attention due to High Profile Police Shootings taking this case?

That's a Whole lot of High Profile fire power calling this Racially Motivated before any evidence came to light.

and @WhoDatPhan78 , while you and I do not see eye to eye on hardly anything.. I do have to agree with you. That today's journalism is less about quality news reporting and more about sensationalism.
 

N.O.Bronco

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Good question. I think a few here, myself included, were uncomfortable with the fact that the racial conclusion was so easy to come by. Not particularly here, but more on a national scale. I get why either you or I may come to that theory, but when it's perpetuated by the media and people in power then I think it can be very damaging. A boy who cried wolf affect so to speak for blacks as well as fueling skepticism for whites. Building that narrative before enough information is gleaned only helps to drive a wedge. I think that's the point many of us were trying to make about calling it a possible hate crime in the beginning and this turn of events kinda validates that opinion. Some just want to brush that off, but I think it's more important than credited here that facts be facts when it comes to the media in these cases and speculation left to you and I.
Why is this logic never extended for suspected Islamic terrorism I wonder?

Ask yourself that seriously, because the situations are rather similar. Yet the response by the same sect of people starkly different.

You have an initial report that pins a white male as the suspect in what seems to be a completely unprovoked act of violence. Why would taking that to an increasingly justifiable hypothesis be problematic? It certainly isn't for suspected Islamic terrorism. Yet in one instance the same people that get mad if we don't call something Islamic terrorism the moment the first round goes off get mad if we offer any sort of public speculation that a crime might be racially motivated on the part of a white person. What does that say about a person? About what they prioritize and empathize with?

And I hate to say it, but as trends go, there is a lot of hate crimes going on these days and at increasing numbers(and by all accounts far more if police reported them accurately). Much like if you heard reports of a brown complected male with a beard driving a truck through a crowd, you might speculate he is an ISIS terrorist based on past precedent, you might reasonably suspect that if a report says a white male rolls up to a parked car of black people and fires numerous shots, there may be a racial component to the motive.

There is this very real trend in America by certain sects of the population that seem to feel that being called a racist , or mislabeling something as racist is a far greater societal problem than the vast amounts of actual interpersonal and structural racism.
 

Saint_Ward

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Joe, what did I say? The flip side would be major news. There isn't a white version of BLM, because no one needs reminding that white lives matter.

The quote from the Congresswoman, what's so wrong about it?

“Do not be afraid to call this what it seems to be — a hate crime,” Representative Sheila Jackson Lee, a Houston Democrat, told hundreds of people at a rally last week near the site of the killing.

She did NOT say it was one. That it seems to be one. i.e. based on the limited information given, a senseless killing of a black girl by a white man, without a reason like road rage, a robbery, etc other than terrorism what would you assume? The local police just had the wrong suspect because the witness was confused.

Maybe they shouldn't have put it out there so fast if they weren't really sure. If if they really were sure, then they need to think about how strongly they trust witnesses on the scene.

It's odd to have this standard for black folk, or at least BLM specifically. Are you going to be this consistent on every topic? No one should have an opinion until all the facts are out. We shouldn't reason or assume ever on anything.

Don't you dare get upset about NFL players kneeling during the Anthem unless you ask every single one of them why they are doing it, who they talked to, and how thousands of people feel about it. I mean, we are completely interested in having all of the facts before we make a single comment on any topic right?
 

N.O.Bronco

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Where people appeal to these sorts of arguments Joe is using signals quite a lot in my experience.

I remember in fact, not that long ago(I.E. less than a week ago), where Joe was basically making post after post wildly assuming about the upbringing and motives of a kid dressing up in drag in order to justify shaming him and his parents. Including assuming that his mom watching drag queen shows made him gay.

It's funny how that selective application of getting outraged at people that don't wait for all the facts works.

Of course in that instance people pushing back on him prompted him to get mad and also without evidence accuse them of wanting to call him a racist. That they were essentially thin skinned for not letting him have his opinion without getting all worked up.

So Joe, why the divergence, what is the justification for thinking it's ok to assume and demand the right to do so without consequence contrasted with this thread where it is a straight up outrage to hypothesize based on initial eye witness testimony?
 
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Joe OKC

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The quote from the Congresswoman, what's so wrong about it?

“Do not be afraid to call this what it seems to be — a hate crime,” Representative Sheila Jackson Lee, a Houston Democrat, told hundreds of people at a rally last week near the site of the killing.

She did NOT say it was one. That it seems to be one. i.e. based on the limited information given, a senseless killing of a black girl by a white man, without a reason like road rage, a robbery, etc other than terrorism what would you assume? The local police just had the wrong suspect because the witness was confused.
What???? You are NOT going to try and spin that around that it comes out clean are you?

I don;t know if anyone told you yet. But it wasn't a hate crime.

Therefore US congressional personnel don;t need to go spouting that crap on National Television. Especially when it's false... Therein falls the False Narrative that was referred to. And that is what the Media picked up on and ran with...

That woman was clearly indicating that it was a Racially motivated hate crime and you know it.

and what was her answer when the Press called her on it. "Well nobody took the law into their own hands, so my comment was OK."
 
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N.O.Bronco

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Me personally, I'm just pointing out how you are literally the embodiment of the very thing you get outraged at.

How you want to confront that fact is up to you.
 

Saint_Ward

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What???? You are NOT going to try and spin that around that it comes out clean are you?

I don;t know if anyone told you yet. But it wasn't a hate crime.

Therefore US congressional personnel don;t need to go spouting that crap on National Television. Especially when it's false... Therein falls the False Narrative that was referred to. And that is what the Media picked up on and ran with...

That woman was clearly indicating that it was a Racially motivated hate crime and you know it.

and what was her answer when the Press called her on it. "Well nobody took the law into their own hands, so my comment was OK."
We know that now, but when she made the comments the police had a BOLO for a white male in a red pick up.

so, her comment seemed accurate at the time, even if it was getting a bit ahead of its self.
 

rajncajn

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He took one line out of my 4 paragraph assessment.

And I'm not being fair?
Was what I said wrong? Maybe I should have been more brief, but I wanted to elaborate.

It (the See, it wasn't a white guy!!!) seemed like it was beyond just "acknowledging" something. Not every comment but some.
You make it sound as if people were giddy at the fact it wasn't a white guy.
I really don't see anyone fitting your description, so yes, I thought it was being unfair.
 

rajncajn

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Why is this logic never extended for suspected Islamic terrorism I wonder?

Ask yourself that seriously, because the situations are rather similar. Yet the response by the same sect of people starkly different.
Hmmm, random highway shooting vs mass killing. When the white kid went into an all black church and killed several parishioners, yep, that's most assuredly a hate crime. That's a fair assessment. A white male randomly shooting up a car with black people in it on the highway, not so much. I honestly don't get how road rage is not the most likely hypothesis. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that the first conclusion that is jumped to is race, simply because the shooter was supposedly white & the victims black. Here's some info I found on road rage incidents:

http://drivingschool.net/road-rage-statistics-filled-surprising-facts/
Road Rage deaths per year
Over a seven-year period, AAA found over 12,500 injuries could be linked to these acts. Road rage could also be linked to 218 deaths, mostly deliberate murders conducted by angry drivers. That number has been steadily increasing at a rate of 7% each year.
Road rage is so common and prevalent in this country that it has it's own name, yet what comes first in some of your minds is race and act as if simple road rage doesn't even exist.

There is this very real trend in America by certain sects of the population that seem to feel that being called a racist , or mislabeling something as racist is a far greater societal problem than the vast amounts of actual interpersonal and structural racism.
No, and that's where you're really wrong. I think that mislabeling or jumping to assumptions, especially by the media and our leaders, is damaging to our society and making racial harmony more difficult. As I said, it has a crying wolf affect that throws skepticism over a real and valid issue.
 

DavidM

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Hmmm, random highway shooting vs mass killing. When the white kid went into an all black church and killed several parishioners, yep, that's most assuredly a hate crime. That's a fair assessment. A white male randomly shooting up a car with black people in it on the highway, not so much. I honestly don't get how road rage is not the most likely hypothesis. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that the first conclusion that is jumped to is race, simply because the shooter was supposedly white & the victims black.
And still, what a depressing alternative to live with. Man shoots up car, killing a child - that's road rage in America!

I don't disagree with you. I think the rush to conclusions is obviously risky and so damaging when it's wrong. Especially when so many people are waiting eagerly to discredit individuals and delegitimize a movement.

In the end, all of this is just the latest occasion for us to re-examine how we interact with each other, and how we discuss with one another. Truth is, we are a society of people who often aren't very good at listening and empathizing and trying to understand. It's a failure on all sides. We will move on soon enough to other crises, having learned nothing.
 

N.O.Bronco

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It's just weird to me coming onto these discussion forums and contrasting the experience with real life and all available evidence.

By the accounts you hear here, America is a bastion of tolerance and equality and the real problem is over-sensitive liberals seeing racism when it doesn't exist. The real problem, is not racism, but people that are too quick to apply that label to a fading problem. Racism is but a fleeting thing on the fringes of society and the real issue is the groups that make it a centralized focus like BLM, SPLC, ACLU, Antifa, Social-Justice activists, and Democrats. Or people that choose to protest or hypothesize that incidents may be race related. If we just stop giving it over-sized attention, it will go away.

Now the internet is a funny place, so maybe it is insulation, self-sheltering, or too much time in certain echo chambers, but it remains an incredibly out of touch position. And an incredibly contradictory one.

I mean we know for instance that when Twitter started kicking off racists and racially charged trolls, the alt-right created a safe space for their brand of hate(I'm sorry "free-speech") and called it GAB. A mostly American site that has 800,000 active members. The most prominent users being Richard Spencer, various Unite The Right leaders, and far-right conservative voices. We know that all other things being equal, an unarmed black person is more likely to be fatally shot by a police officer than their white counterpart. We know that all other things being equal, a black person is more likely to be stopped by police officers in routine patrols. We know that leading up to the financial crisis black people, in contrast to their white counterparts, were often targeted and forced into subprime loans despite being equally qualified for non-subprime loans. We know that redlining is still alive and well with multi-million dollar settlements over the last few years from a number of the most high profile banks including Chase and Wells Fargo, and successful lawsuits in about a dozen states with smaller community banks. And we know that racially motivated violence is both wildly under-reported and has still been on a notable incline in recent years, with more and more high and low profile incidents. Heck, we know people are racist because every time Google, Apple, Microsoft, and Facebook try and create AI programs that use human internet data, they inexplicably end up a perverted, racist peice of work.

Now if this were Islamic terrorism we would hear cries that America is putting their head in the sand, unable to confront the real threats to safety, not doing nearly enough. Build a wall, stop immigrants from middle east coming in, label terrorist attacks Islamic at the soonest possible moment, stop coddling a violent religion and admit this problem is systemic etc.......But if you do that about America's problem of racism????? Say draw a hypothesis from eye witness testimony that identifies a white male shooting into a parked car at a Wal Mart shopping center? Well assuming road rage is fine, but not racism.
 

Saint by the Bay

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a. I think everyone should be a lot more cautious about introducing race into current events until all the facts are known.

b. I think people shouldn't pound their chest with glee on the rare occasions that the people in group (a) turn out to be wrong.
 

Brad Mojo

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But @Saint_Ward

A United States Congresswoman - Calling it Racially moticated before the facts came out.
But to be fair, it is just Sheila Jackson Lee. If you know anything about her you that this is her typical style and what everyone expects of her now.
 

N.O.Bronco

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a. I think everyone should be a lot more cautious about introducing race into current events until all the facts are known.

b. I think people shouldn't pound their chest with glee on the rare occasions that the people in group (a) turn out to be wrong.
Honest question, why?

For nothing else in society do we seemingly beg people to wait til the last possible second to draw inferences about motive.

I fully get and get behind the notion of waiting til a reasonable level of evidence is out before calling for your pound of flesh, it's why I stayed out of this thread as long as a I did, even though I don't fault people for hypothesizing when an eye witness pinned the shooter as a white male in a Wal-Mart parking lot. But there is a pretty important meta question about why it is that race, at least for one particular group, is so sensitive that we are actually trying to punish it to the point of suppressing it's mention compared to all other suspected motives. We can assume road rage, Islamic terrorism, anti-Americanism, but to assume race is beyond the pale.
 

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