90% of the forum is overcomplicating things (1 Viewer)

LSSpam

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The Saints produced 600 yards of offense, 300 of it in the first half. They held onto the ball for 33:33. We produced 29 first downs, were 50% on 3rd down conversions (league average is below 40%). We had only 4 penalties, only one of which was arguably critical (the Jahri Evans hold).

Defensively, prior to the 4th quarter the Saints, through aggressive defensive play-calling, had stuffed the run and held the Bengals to 10 points, 7 of it coming on one busted coverage play. This despite numerous turnovers.

Prior to the 4th quarter the Bengals had only produced 220 total yards. 112 of Chad Johnson's yards came in the 4th quarter as well as 44 of Rudi Johnson's yards. Put differently, going into the 4th, Rudi Johnson had 67 yards rushing, Chad Johnson 68 yards recieving.



No, let me make this real simple.

If we do not throw interceptions in the end zone. If we are leading 24-10 going into the 4th. The defense plays softer because it can ignore the run. Chad Johnson does not just destroy us for 112 yards on 2 deep passes because we have deep safety help. This is a different game.

That's it. That's all there is to it. It's fine to discuss individual performances, I enjoy it. Dissecting what happened to Fred Thomas/Josh Bullocks is fine. I agree with that.

But the secret to the game is very clear.

1) We did not have poor play-calling. We had good Time of Possession. We kept the Bengals off the field. We moved the ball extremely well. Payton did not call "Interception in the End Zone". Those were bad decisions. They occur.

2) The defense wasn't as awful as it's being made out to be. The defense is not particularly good. But they are plenty good enough. They held a Cinncinati offense that doused a very good San Diego defense to 10 points and not many yards for 3 quarters. Things were bound to break down eventually. The offense had to help the defense out by getting a lead. It's a lot easier to play defense with a lead. We play softer, put safeties over the top, largely ignore the run, Chad Johnson doesn't go crazy, we get a better pass rush. Things are different.

3) Same with Freddie T. Expecting Freddie T to man up on Chad Johnson for 4 quarters is ridiculous. Better CBs then him have been victimized by Chad Johnson. He needed safety help, but the defense was rarely in a position to consistently give it to him (and Bullocks blew the help anyways when it was supposed to be there). Freddie T did get burned. It's not that suprising though and he shouldn't be cut. Again, we play with a lead in the 4th and this probably isn't even discussed.

4) What does Simoneau have to do with Chad Johnson getting 112 yards and 2 TDs in the 4th quarter? How on earth does Danny Clark affect this?

So chill out folks. This is simple. Don't throw two picks in the end zone. Since Drew Brees rarely does this, I suspect the problem will be fixed.

It's ok folks. It's ok.
 
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LSSpam

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it seems like you have posted this 5 times today
Waaaaaaaayyyyy more then 5 times if you count all of the fragements this post is made up of that were spread out amongest the variety of threads.

But yeah I just put it all together to stress the overarching point.
 

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1) Payton called pass TWICE in situations where passes aren't the preferred method of ball advancement - this is a recurring theme this year (see Baltimore game, 2 12-yard INT returns. Shouldn't have been throwing there either). Payton calls pass at all the right times... and all the left times... and all the up times... and all the down times... and all the top times... and all the bottom times... and all the diagonal times... and all the double-loop times. This is called "seeing the bigger picture." Screw the specifics of this game, sustained incorrectness is the exact reason we wanted Haslett out of here on a hot rail.

2) Defense gave up close to 400 yards themselves. OH WAIT, they also gave up 24 points. OH WAIT, this all despite our elite ball control on offense.

3) We weren't expecting Thomas to man up on Chad, in fact we were expecting Gibbs to realize that this WASN'T HAPPENING and making an adjustment. He didn't. We got burned for it.

4) No clue what's going on there.
 

P-town balla

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You are correct sir. As I have posted after every loss this year, it has all come down to turnovers. We don;t make the turnovers, we win. Simple as that. We can play with and beat any team we come across.
 

Wahoo

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So chill out folks. This is simple. Don't throw two picks in the end zone. Since Drew Brees rarely does this, I suspect the problem will be fixed.

It's ok folks. It's ok.
I've got no quarrel with your post, in fact agree with 99% of it. My concern is, in three of the past 4 weeks, we've basically given games away due to turnovers. And Brees has been a major contributor in two of those. Against Baltimore, we had no running game and he was under constant pressure, so those were a bit more understandable as he was trying to make some things happen, but all 3 INTs today were horrible decisions on his part. And the way the entire offense was functioning, he did not have to force those throws.
 
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Dean in L.A.

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great original post
 

rlemieux

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http://www.saintsreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4352

on the same page with ya. Like I said this defense isn't going to go out and win games, however it's not gonna play bad enough to go out and lose them either. We control the turnovers, we get points (I don't care if their field goals), we control the clock, we play smart football, we win the game. End of story.
 

VDK

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The Saints produced 600 yards of offense, 300 of it in the first half. They held onto the ball for 33:33. We produced 29 first downs, were 50% on 3rd down conversions (league average is below 40%). We had only 4 penalties, only one of which was arguably critical (the Jahri Evans hold).

Defensively, prior to the 4th quarter the Saints, through aggressive defensive play-calling, had stuffed the run and held the Bengals to 10 points, 7 of it coming on one busted coverage play. This despite numerous turnovers.

Prior to the 4th quarter the Bengals had only produced 220 total yards. 112 of Chad Johnson's yards came in the 4th quarter as well as 44 of Rudi Johnson's yards. Put differently, going into the 4th, Rudi Johnson had 67 yards rushing, Chad Johnson 68 yards recieving.



No, let me make this real simple.

If we do not throw interceptions in the end zone. If we are leading 24-10 going into the 4th. The defense plays softer because it can ignore the run. Chad Johnson does not just destroy us for 112 yards on 2 deep passes because we have deep safety help. This is a different game.

That's it. That's all there is to it. It's fine to discuss individual performances, I enjoy it. Dissecting what happened to Fred Thomas/Josh Bullocks is fine. I agree with that.

But the secret to the game is very clear.

1) We did not have poor play-calling. We had good Time of Possession. We kept the Bengals off the field. We moved the ball extremely well. Payton did not call "Interception in the End Zone". Those were bad decisions. They occur.

2) The defense wasn't as awful as it's being made out to be. The defense is not particularly good. But they are plenty good enough. They held a Cinncinati offense that doused a very good San Diego defense to 10 points and not many yards for 3 quarters. Things were bound to break down eventually. The offense had to help the defense out by getting a lead. It's a lot easier to play defense with a lead. We play softer, put safeties over the top, largely ignore the run, Chad Johnson doesn't go crazy, we get a better pass rush. Things are different.

3) Same with Freddie T. Expecting Freddie T to man up on Chad Johnson for 4 quarters is ridiculous. Better CBs then him have been victimized by Chad Johnson. He needed safety help, but the defense was rarely in a position to consistently give it to him (and Bullocks blew the help anyways when it was supposed to be there). Freddie T did get burned. It's not that suprising though and he shouldn't be cut. Again, we play with a lead in the 4th and this probably isn't even discussed.

4) What does Simoneau have to do with Chad Johnson getting 112 yards and 2 TDs in the 4th quarter? How on earth does Danny Clark affect this?

So chill out folks. This is simple. Don't throw two picks in the end zone. Since Drew Brees rarely does this, I suspect the problem will be fixed.

It's ok folks. It's ok.

All season long this defense has given up big plays; today was no different and to say that if we were leading 24-10 things would have been different is pure conjecture. (See Saints vs Philly this year.) Today, as has been the case all season, the defense gave up big plays that cost us the game. Despite Brees two endzone ints, we were still in the game 10-10 until the defense gave up three big plays to Johnson and Cincy went up 24-10 early in the 4th. Turnovers hurt us, but don't discount our weaknesses on defense that have plagued us all season. The critical question: can the offense continue to bail out the defense? The last two weeks it could not.

We lost the game during this series of plays in my opinion (no turnovers were involved):

Fourth Quarter
New Orleans Saints continued...
2-2-CIN6 (15:00) D.McAllister left tackle to CIN 5 for 1 yard (C.Miller, J.Thornton).
3-1-CIN5 (14:22) D.McAllister left guard to CIN 6 for -1 yards (J.Smith).
4-2-CIN6 (13:43) J.Carney 24 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-K.Houser, Holder-J.Martin.
CIN 10 NO 10, Plays: 11 Yards: 74 Possession: 6:33.

New Orleans Saints at 13:39
J.Carney kicks 60 yards from NO 30 to CIN 10. C.Perry to CIN 22 for 12 yards (C.McIntyre).
Cincinnati Bengals at 13:33
1-10-CIN22 (13:33) R.Johnson right guard to CIN 23 for 1 yard (H.Thomas, S.Fujita).
2-9-CIN23 (12:59) R.Johnson right guard to CIN 25 for 2 yards (H.Thomas, S.Fujita).
3-7-CIN25 (12:16) (Shotgun) C.Palmer pass short left to T.Houshmandzadeh to CIN 32 for 7 yards (J.Craft, O.Stoutmire).
1-10-CIN32 (11:50) C.Palmer pass short right to R.Johnson to CIN 39 for 7 yards (S.Shanle, S.Fujita) [A.Lake].
2-3-CIN39 (11:15) R.Johnson right guard to CIN 40 for 1 yard (W.Smith, C.Grant).
3-2-CIN40 (10:34) (Shotgun) C.Palmer pass deep left to C.Johnson for 60 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
S.Graham extra point is GOOD, Center-B.St. Louis, Holder-K.Larson.
CIN 17 NO 10, Plays: 6 Yards: 78 Possession: 3:16.

Cincinnati Bengals at 10:23
S.Graham kicks 69 yards from CIN 30 to NO 1. M.Lewis to NO 28 for 27 yards (A.Frazier).
New Orleans Saints at 10:16
1-10-NO28 (10:16) D.Brees pass incomplete short left to D.McAllister.
2-10-NO28 (10:11) R.Bush right tackle to NO 29 for 1 yard (L.Johnson).
3-9-NO29 (9:28) (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short right to R.Bush to NO 35 for 6 yards (L.Johnson).
4-3-NO35 (8:58) S.Weatherford punts 45 yards to CIN 20, Center-K.Houser. K.Ratliff to CIN 26 for 6 yards (K.Houser).
Cincinnati Bengals at 08:45
1-10-CIN26 (8:45) R.Johnson left end to CIN 48 for 22 yards (F.Thomas). FUMBLES (F.Thomas), ball out of bounds at CIN 48.
1-10-CIN48 (8:25) C.Palmer pass deep left to C.Johnson to NO 4 for 48 yards (F.Thomas).
1-4-NO4 (7:41) C.Palmer pass short left to C.Johnson for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
S.Graham extra point is GOOD, Center-B.St. Louis, Holder-K.Larson.
CIN 24 NO 10, Plays: 3 Yards: 74 Possession: 1:08.
 
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