A europeans Muslim resentment (1 Viewer)

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Ok, well now we are moving back to my original question of why they are considered a peaceful religion. If the Clerics, who are the leaders, do not see it as wrong for anyone in their religion to carryout the violence against innocent people as they have been, then who is going to stand up? The clerics can teach dialogue over violence.

Who said the clerics don't see terrorism as wrong. As I said in my first post, there have been op-ed pieces, fatwas and discussions from Muslim leaders that denounce terrorism. You said that wasn't enough, and I asked what more would you have them do? They're not going to rally in the streets if that's what you want.

The terrorist are committing these acts in the name of their religion, not in the name of their country and that puts this as an issue with the clerics and the teaching they are providing.

And as i've said, there are plenty of rulings and discussions in the Islamic community about that. It's all publicly available if you care to look for. Start with the mufti at Cairo's Islamic university... Grand Mufti, Ali Gomaa. He's not exactly a minor figure. What more are you looking for exactly?

As an example, Catholics have had a problem for years with pedophilia and the pope has started taking action by removing priest who have committed the crimes or covered for the crime. I don't know the heirarchy of Islam but I would say someone needs to gain control of the radicals. These terrorists are not suddenly waking up with the desire to go blow themselves and hundreds of others up. They are being taught that this is right. That teaching is wrong!

Some are taught that is right, some are taught that is wrong. I can take you to a church that teaches we should bash in the heads of gay people. I can point you to the passage in the bible that says that. And there are even examples where some people do that. Does that mean Christians are taught to hate gays?

There is no central organizing principle in Islam like there is in Catholicism or even some of the protestant churches. Heck, look at Iran with a grand ayatollah and look at all the different theologies being taught within Iran.

I am sure their are peaceful muslim people who have the self power like you and me to know right from wrong no matter what anyone in an authority figure says. However, I do not know of any other religion that has an organized group committing the level of destruction as Islam. Their violence is not new.

Huh? Where are you getting your numbers? Or are you only talking about the last 30 years.... b/c I can tell you that Christianity over it's last 2000 years can give anyone a good run for their money in terms of religious destruction.

So my question still remains, when and from what event will these actions stop? According to you no one is in power to stop it.

I'm saying that the Islamic world behaves in ways not that dissimilar from the western world when put under similar conditions. You want to have peaceful coexistence, make them believe that you actually want peaceful coexistence through your actions as well as your words. Provide the conditions that will make them successful, and show them that the alternative is worse than they have now ...

Do you beleive the fight will stop instantly if by some miracle all western dealing in the middle east ceased tomorrow? I don't.

No, but we might get the same level of attacks as Switzerland does. Oh wait. OK, I was being a bit flippant, but is it any surprise that the bulk of the attacks comes against the countries that attack the Middle East, overthrow their governments, and take land from them?

I'll leave with a quote from the Bible, from Matthew 7:5...

You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

and i'm not calling anyone a hypocrite, that's just how the verse starts

 

[SaintsBrazil]

As a missionary, I've done quite a bit of study in anthropology and world religions. I think people should understand that most middle easterns aren't Islamist and most far easterns aren't Buddhists. Those are the culturally dominant religions, but most don't adhere faithfully to those religions, they adhere to the veneer of the religion. You can see this in the US, as there is a veneer of Christianity, but most aren't Christian.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

As a missionary, I've done quite a bit of study in anthropology and world religions. I think people should understand that most middle easterns aren't Islamist and most far easterns aren't Buddhists. Those are the culturally dominant religions, but most don't adhere faithfully to those religions, they adhere to the veneer of the religion. You can see this in the US, as there is a veneer of Christianity, but most aren't Christian.

I would agree with that. I've state before... I think there are very few true Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, or even athiests... I think most people are sort of agnostic with a cultural preference to the direction their agnosticism takes.

 

[FWtex]

I read a story yesterday that the vatican is trying to schedule another meeting with Clerics as well as other religions sometime by the end of summer. The focus of the meeting is to establish a means to isolate Islamic terrorism.

The article stated the same collision course I have been speaking of if something does not change.

 

[Saintman2884]

I talked a professor at South who was from Pakistan and he said that the perception among some Americans is that most Muslims are fervently anti-Western, falling into the categories that we think of them, meaning Muslims as. And on most occasions it does not work that way. Mr. Little Jeans made a comment on oppressed people and working for justice and peace, thats a situational ethics sort of argument. the South after the civil war was feeling pretty oppressed and reacted violent ally against newly freed slaves and that as we all know was a bad thing to see for all involved. Segregation wasn't good but it happened because most white Southerners refused to accept black people as equals and because they saw them as collaborators with the Union and the people they hated and fought for 4 long bloody years.

Figuring out cultures is a bit of like Russian Roulette, and with Muslim cultures they want human rights, and freedom, but maybe not the way we would want it. If you work it within their culture frame, then it works better for them. and maybe I am just guessing here on all this