About those magazine size limits... (1 Viewer)

Saint77

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<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/b2Upjn5DR0o" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

I'm surprised it hasn't been posted yet. If your one of those who has convinced themselves mag size will make a difference, please watch this video, and everyone on either side of the fence should understand as well, that there always variables to every situation.

(If its been posted and discussed somewhere else, sorry)
 

wcklink

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And then there's this guy. Had a class with him last weekend. Simply amazing shooter.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1QhmSg3UjEU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

BHM

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What I have learned from the first video...

1. Jim pulls the trigger faster some times.
2. That Glock needs some work to prevent the magazine from hanging up when ejecting.
3. Reloading in a controlled situation is not the same as reloading under pressure.
4. Don't mess with Jim.
5. Don't mess with Christy.
 

BHM

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And then there's this guy. Had a class with him last weekend. Simply amazing shooter.

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1QhmSg3UjEU" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>



What I learned from watching this video.

1. Do not even look funny at Max.
 
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Saint77

Saint77

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What I have learned from the first video...

1. Jim pulls the trigger faster some times.
2. That Glock needs some work to prevent the magazine from hanging up when ejecting.
3. Reloading in a controlled situation is not the same as reloading under pressure.
4. Don't mess with Jim.
5. Don't mess with Christy.


As I said, there are variables. for example, in the section where a person hid by hind the barrel and came running at a magazine changeout, in a typical live shooting, person(s) might be a lot closers. but this video does give you an idea how fast things can go.

"controlled or not, its still not that easy. If your goal is to run through 30 rounds as fast as possible while maintaining your accuracy. I tried doing it on a Glock GSSF Course "M" and I did not find it very easy to do, :hihi:
 
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Saint77

Saint77

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And then there's this guy. Had a class with him last weekend. Simply amazing shooter.

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1QhmSg3UjEU" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>
ban that fully automatic machine gun!!
 

dtc

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As I said, there are variables. for example, in the section where a person hid by hind the barrel and came running at a magazine changeout, in a typical live shooting, person(s) might be a lot closers. but this video does give you an idea how fast things can go.

"controlled or not, its still not that easy. If your goal is to run through 30 rounds as fast as possible while maintaining your accuracy. I tried doing it on a Glock GSSF Course "M" and I did not find it very easy to do, :hihi:
I took from the video that the people producing it were doing so to "prove" that there's no wasted time in changing mags. I took from it that they were intentionally skewing the "results" by having pros shoot at varying rates with so much clear experience that it's not representative of a nervous shooter on a rampage.

There was a clear increase in the rate of fire by Jim. There was a staged platform sitting there for them which is not the same as a moving gunfight.

Honestly, I think the clearly apparent deceit in this video is less helpful to their cause than an authentic analysis would be.
 

BHM

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I took from the video that the people producing it were doing so to "prove" that there's no wasted time in changing mags. I took from it that they were intentionally skewing the "results" by having pros shoot at varying rates with so much clear experience that it's not representative of a nervous shooter on a rampage.

There was a clear increase in the rate of fire by Jim. There was a staged platform sitting there for them which is not the same as a moving gunfight.

Honestly, I think the clearly apparent deceit in this video is less helpful to their cause than an authentic analysis would be.

I agree, he altered his rate of fire which skewed the time results. The girl's performance was a little more realistic.

It does show once again that with just a little practice, it does not take long to load a new magazine and continuing to fire. Even an amateur should be able to do it in under two seconds. Not much time to take advantage of a shooter reloading.
 

dtc

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I agree, he altered his rate of fire which skewed the time results. The girl's performance was a little more realistic.

It does show once again that with just a little practice, it does not take long to load a new magazine and continuing to fire. Even an amateur should be able to do it in under two seconds. Not much time to take advantage of a shooter reloading.
I am an amateur and I don't think it takes me 2 seconds with very little practice while standing in the woods or at the range.

Still, I'm going to hazard and guess that running around carrying a couple of guns and magazines while shooting people and being shot at would complicate things greatly.

Seriously. I can throw a football 15 yards and hit a small target repeatedly. I can't do it while running side to side and back and forth and would probably die if I tried to do it in an NFL game situation.

Experienced professional shooters standing there in glasses and vests with a table in front of them in a well rehearsed display does not convince me that limits on magazine sizes is not a good idea.

And, the argument that some small margin of folks defending themselves from legitimate threats need 15 instead of 10 rounds to do so, is an argument based on a marginal change in safety. That 2 seconds between mag changes is also a marginal change in the level of safety of those being attacked. Judging which is more important is above my pay grade, but essential to the debate.
 

TechDawg09

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Magazines should be no more than like 100 pages. Any longer than that, and my legs fall asleep from sitting on the toilet too long.
 

krushing

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The thing that most people fail to grasp is that a shooter doesn't have to shoot the last bullet before reloading. If the shooter keeps one round in the chamber while switching mags and the gun is never really unloaded. People talk like the gun becomes Usless while switching mags and "cocking", but a practiced shooter would drop the used mag with one of two still in it.
 

Galbreath34

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Most of these nuts aren't practiced, but several of them, including some of the more notorious ones like Cho and Columbine have had duffel bags full of loaded magazines with them. I just don't see the margin being there one way or another, for safety in self-defense or in reducing kills in these insane sprees. I just think the burden of proof for limiting them has to be to show some likely reduction besides "It sure should." I don't think the clown videos really defend much or prove anything, but I don't think it's up to gun owners/lovers/hobbyists to prove it. In another thread I went through every killing spree in the US since the 60s that involved 9 or more deaths. Only a handful of the 30-40 could even possibly have been affected by magazine size. Some were already done with small capacity fire arms and others were quick affairs where the shooter had multiple guns and never reloaded at all and one was with a tire iron only. If you want to pass a law that might affect 6 events every 50 years and don't have hard evidence that it will, just a hunch, I'd say you don't have enough to get my vote.
 

LSSpam

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A shotgun is probably the ideal home defense weapon anyways, particularly combined with an alarm system. A 12 gauge pump with shot loaded doesn't have so much penetration that it'll go through walls possibly injuring other members of your family or bystanders, but has more than sufficient stopping power to end any assault. If you have a pistol grip on it, it's not even particularly unwieldy, but combined with an alarm system you have plenty of time to set up a defense a hallway or bedroom door even with a rifle stock.

To be honest, the alarm system by itself is sufficient. Unless you're facing some sort of professional assassin who is highly motivated to kill you, you were just a target of opportunity (they thought you weren't home) and a loud alarm immediately slams that "opportunity" shut. They'll be gone off your property before you even fully realize what's going on.



I've got a question for all of you fans of self-defense using firearms. Does anyone here know anyone who has ever had to pull a gun on another human during a home invasion situation? I know of only one person, who ironically had two separate incidents. The actual attempted home invasion ended as soon as it started, the person opened the door, her dog barked, and he immediately ran. She was understandably jumpy, and the second time her dog went berserk and she thought she heard a door jiggle, she grabbed her gun and opened the door on the intruder. It was the Fedex guy.
 

krushing

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An AR with a 45 or 9mm upper, green laser and a strobing flash light and a quick find tactical scope is a very good home defense tool, actually the best in my opinion . I can saw a perp in half with it and not shoot my own attacking dog like would happen with a shotgun. Sure a 223 shoots too far but there are plenty of other choices including a subsonic .458 round for ARs. You just have to change the upper.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1362966173.085434.jpg
 

LSSpam

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An AR with a 45 or 9mm upper, green laser and a strobing flash light and a quick find tactical scope is a very good home defense tool, actually the best in my opinion . I can saw a perp in half with it and not shoot my own attacking dog like would happen with a shotgun. Sure a 223 shoots too far but there are plenty of other choices including a subsonic .458 round for ARs. You just have to change the upper.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1362966173.085434.jpg
Sure if you're willing to rely on your accuracy in a tense, abrupt combat situation. That would be a big mistake. The secondary benefit of a shotgun, obviously, is you can be shaky, unsteady, maybe in a panic, and still present more than sufficient deterrence.

A shotgun covering a door or hallway is a castle.
 

krushing

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Sure if you're willing to rely on your accuracy in a tense, abrupt combat situation. That would be a big mistake. The secondary benefit of a shotgun, obviously, is you can be shaky, unsteady, maybe in a panic, and still present more than sufficient deterrence.

A shotgun covering a door or hallway is a castle.
I've shot it enough to know a bunch of lead is going exactly where that green laser is pointing. I'd think the same thing you are saying and i even have a home defense mossberg 12 gauge pump,. if it wasn't for that green laser. I can put 5 in thd size of a penny at 50 feet. In my house, there would be no missing. I'd cut someone completely in half with it. Without the laser, I'd grab the shotgun. I prey to God that I never have to use either in my house.
 

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