Akeem Hicks case for playing 3-4 DE. (1 Viewer)

[DaDomePatrol]

Say whatever you want and spit all these facts out and try to make other people feel dumb because you can read what a 1 gap and 2 gap is and what texans, patriots, cowboys, RR, GW, Wade, and blah blah blah. None of this matters. If you look at Hicks strengths and weaknesses as a player he is a NT or in a 4 man line can play basically both but better suited of the nose. What production did he have last year to make you so sure of this? You act like he can play all over the line and I just don't know where you get this from? He is quick for his size but not compared to a very good DE at 300. He's not even close unless he loses a lot of weight. 325 is inaccurate now.

 

[CitySaint]

Can anyone give a recent example of two players that are essentially nose tackles each playing 0 tech and 3 tech in a 1 gap defense? This is sounding like big bodies in a 2 gap more so than 1 gap. I enjoy the idea of forcing the guard to choose whether he will assist on Bunkley or on Hicks and whoever he doesn't choose gets mauled.

 

[DaDomePatrol]

Well done! Hicks is really the best choice we have for DE opposite Jordan and it's not even close. For a man his size he's so explosive it'd be a shame just to use him to occupy blockers at NT.

Considering a NT is arguably the most important position in a 3-4? It is not glorified like a DE getting sacks like a LT getting TDs. Him being a DE is a waste when we can find someone much better and suited there than him. Perfect example is Jay Ratliff for the cowboys who is 300 at best andade the pro bowl. He was a NT not a DE in there scheme. Hicks is similar to him except bigger and even a better fit at NT.

 

[nosaints213]

Yeah, I love him at the WDE in Ryan's system because the WDE plays the 3-tech, and the SDE plays the 5-tech (Cam Jordan). Bunkley is a perfect 1-tech. I think we can have a dominant DLine for the first time in a LOOOOOOOONG time. If Tez can solidify himself as the SAM (his best, most natural position IMO), then we're good to go.

 

[JackDiesel]

Because of some Pre snap pictures makes him a DE? What DT in a 4-3 doesn't do what you just showed. Franklin and Rogers even did this. But they are not DEs in a 3-4 period. Hicks is a NT period. Like I said of course he could play 3 tech eve 5 if wanted I would hope so. He will not excell there and be average. The guy is a freaking nose tackle through and through. Has potential to be a pro bowler. I would bet my house he has added weight instead of losing it. How many NTs in the league do you see that big playing 3-4 DE? None. When we run a 4 man line in nickel or dime packages yes he can play all over the inside. Quit reading fits and schemes on how defenses are run and actuall use what the guys natural ability is. Listed at 325 and I would get he's 10 lbs heavier instead of his weight or lighter. He is one of the reasons we went to a 3-4 because coaches believed he was the future NT not DE. Only time will tell before you are wrong and I will remember to make a new thread quoting you.

You do know who Haloti Ngata is right? The 340 lb RDE for the Ravens.

You clearly are just looking at Hicks size and making a horrible projection and completely failing to consider he's extremely athletic with an explosive first step for a man his size. Asking him to just occupy blockers is a waste of his talents.

Considering a NT is arguably the most important position in a 3-4? It is not glorified like a DE getting sacks like a LT getting TDs. Him being a DE is a waste when we can find someone much better and suited there than him. Perfect example is Jay Ratliff for the cowboys who is 300 at best andade the pro bowl. He was a NT not a DE in there scheme. Hicks is similar to him except bigger and even a better fit at NT.

You realize you just made the perfect case for Bunkley to be our NT. You know the guy we have under contract with a lot of guaranteed money left in his deal?

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Great post and it actually cements my argument tht he should play shaded nose in our base and then move him around in the nickel.

However my counter argument has nothing to do with his ability...but more to do with logic

Check out John Jenkins/Kwame Geathers stats from last year

They are eerily similar with Geathers getting more TFL/Sacks and Jenkins more Tackles

My point.....how important a 1-2 punch@ NT is.


If you slot hicks@ DE who on the roster plays nose with Bunk?

You have successfully created another hole on your roster.
We are in transition...the last thing we want to do is create holes.

Do u dip in FA and sign another Vet NT...after just doing so last year?
DO you spend a 3rd rounder on Brandon Williams...a small school prospect tht u have to project can he come in and play tht #2 spot @ NT....which is VERY important
Or do u spend a 1st on a guy like John Jenkins or Jonathan Hankins?

Id prefer not to.

Id prefer to keep the TWO GUYS already on the roster tht have proven they can play the shaded nose in our base 3-4 under. Then maybe draft a guy like Kwame Geathers in the 5th/6th n bring him along slowly as the 3rd NT.

Now..the next thing is how much time will we spend in our base front?

When we move to nickel..u can play hicks all over the front and have him play whtever technique u want.

For the sake of making the type of transition i wouldnt want to creat a hole@ NT when we already have two guys tht have proven they can play the shaded nose.we have several guys tht can play 5 and 3 tech on the roster....and as of right nw 2 that can play shaded nose in the base.

 

[DaDomePatrol]

You do know who Haloti Ngata is right? The 340 lb RDE for the Ravens.

You clearly are just looking at Hicks size and making a horrible projection and completely failing to consider he's extremely athletic with an explosive first step for a man his size. Asking him to just occupy blockers is a waste of his talents.



You realize you just made the perfect case for Bunkley to be our NT. You know the guy we have under contract with a lot of guaranteed money left in his deal?

Haha here we go again comparing him to the best and most versatile DT in the NFL. He also lost around 20-30 lbs from where he was at the NT. NFL network he talked about it because the team had a few good NTs on the roster so he was able to make he move. What did Hicks do last year for you to say this. I love the guy and think he has a world of potential at the NT not DE. Yes I am looking at his size which is a big factor. Why can't he be athletic and be a NT which is more important. Yea Bunkley who is average and small. Bunkley will be a perfect back up to Hicks and other spots because he is versatile. Hicks is also versatile but will be a NT for us. He could be great instead of just good like Bunkey. Out of the 26 DEs in a 3-4 2 years ago the average weight was 299 and only 11 were slightly above that. Why did Ratliff play NT in Dallas please explain this? He is 300 lbs and way quicker and explosive than Hicks. I think you and a few others are not realizing the value if him being a great NT to our defense is. Keep comparing him to Ngata who was top 10 of all players ranked in the NFL at a NT not DE! He has now made the switch. Time will tell you are wrong like a few others. Will he play some 3tech with 4 man lines? Of course! When we go 3 he will be heads up with the center though. Bet!

 

[DaDomePatrol]

Great post and it actually cements my argument tht he should play shaded nose in our base and then move him around in the nickel.

However my counter argument has nothing to do with his ability...but more to do with logic

Check out John Jenkins/Kwame Geathers stats from last year

They are eerily similar with Geathers getting more TFL/Sacks and Jenkins more Tackles

My point.....how important a 1-2 punch@ NT is.


If you slot hicks@ DE who on the roster plays nose with Bunk?

You have successfully created another hole on your roster.
We are in transition...the last thing we want to do is create holes.

Do u dip in FA and sign another Vet NT...after just doing so last year?
DO you spend a 3rd rounder on Brandon Williams...a small school prospect tht u have to project can he come in and play tht #2 spot @ NT....which is VERY important
Or do u spend a 1st on a guy like John Jenkins or Jonathan Hankins?

Id prefer not to.

Id prefer to keep the TWO GUYS already on the roster tht have proven they can play the shaded nose in our base 3-4 under. Then maybe draft a guy like Kwame Geathers in the 5th/6th n bring him along slowly as the 3rd NT.

Now..the next thing is how much time will we spend in our base front?

When we move to nickel..u can play hicks all over the front and have him play whtever technique u want.

For the sake of making the type of transition i wouldnt want to creat a hole@ NT when we already have two guys tht have proven they can play the shaded nose.we have several guys tht can play 5 and 3 tech on the roster....and as of right nw 2 that can play shaded nose in the base.

I'm just going to let you speak for me from now on because you are dead on! Why waste a draft pick when we basically drafted him and happened to get the perfect NT. No way can he or Bunkley play every snap at that position. The rotation of them 2 could be 1 of the best in the league. Jordan is absolutely perfect and Smith can be very serviceable. I would draft a DE instead of trying to force Hicks somewhere he is not. Let him play his natural position and dominate.

 

[CitySaint]

I think the emphasis is that no one wants Hicks to be a depth guy but that is likely the reality, he and Bunkley will be in a rotation.

 

[bornnraisedwhodat]

Great post and it actually cements my argument tht he should play shaded nose in our base and then move him around in the nickel.

However my counter argument has nothing to do with his ability...but more to do with logic

Check out John Jenkins/Kwame Geathers stats from last year

They are eerily similar with Geathers getting more TFL/Sacks and Jenkins more Tackles

My point.....how important a 1-2 punch@ NT is.


If you slot hicks@ DE who on the roster plays nose with Bunk?

You have successfully created another hole on your roster.
We are in transition...the last thing we want to do is create holes.

Do u dip in FA and sign another Vet NT...after just doing so last year?
DO you spend a 3rd rounder on Brandon Williams...a small school prospect tht u have to project can he come in and play tht #2 spot @ NT....which is VERY important
Or do u spend a 1st on a guy like John Jenkins or Jonathan Hankins?

Id prefer not to.

Id prefer to keep the TWO GUYS already on the roster tht have proven they can play the shaded nose in our base 3-4 under. Then maybe draft a guy like Kwame Geathers in the 5th/6th n bring him along slowly as the 3rd NT.

Now..the next thing is how much time will we spend in our base front?

When we move to nickel..u can play hicks all over the front and have him play whtever technique u want.

For the sake of making the type of transition i wouldnt want to creat a hole@ NT when we already have two guys tht have proven they can play the shaded nose.we have several guys tht can play 5 and 3 tech on the roster....and as of right nw 2 that can play shaded nose in the base.

Yep what he said

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[bornnraisedwhodat]

You do know who Haloti Ngata is right? The 340 lb RDE for the Ravens.

You clearly are just looking at Hicks size and making a horrible projection and completely failing to consider he's extremely athletic with an explosive first step for a man his size. Asking him to just occupy blockers is a waste of his talents.



You realize you just made the perfect case for Bunkley to be our NT. You know the guy we have under contract with a lot of guaranteed money left in his deal?

Thank you! Ngata has played at DE the last 2 years!

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I think the emphasis is that no one wants Hicks to be a depth guy but that is likely the reality, he and Bunkley will be in a rotation.

Its how u view it

He will get just as many snaps in the base front as Bunkley and will play in the Nickel...snaps that bunk wont see.

Its nice projecting starters based on getting ur most talented players...but we often for get about the importance of depth.

3rd CB is like a starter

Nothing wrong with hicks n bunk swapping@ NT with hicks seeing the field in passing situations...he might as well b a starter since teams will be playing catch u a lot nxt year

 

[CitySaint]

Its how u view it

He will get just as many snaps in the base front as Bunkley and will play in the Nickel...snaps that bunk wont see.

Its nice projecting starters based on getting ur most talented players...but we often for get about the importance of depth.

3rd CB is like a starter

Nothing wrong with hicks n bunk swapping@ NT with hicks seeing the field in passing situations...he might as well b a starter since teams will be playing catch u a lot nxt year

It's 300 snaps or more that Hicks will be standing on the sidelines. Is it that hard to find an interior player who can come in on passing downs, which is what Hicks would be doing? The great, disciplined, run defending noses are the ones hard to find.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

It's 300 snaps or more that Hicks will be standing on the sidelines. Is it that
hard to find an interior player who can come in on passing downs, which is what Hicks would be doing? The great, disciplined, run defending noses are the ones hard to find.

Its all opinion but like i said...u have several guys tht can play 5/3 tech on the team

Cam Jordan/ Will Smith can play both
Walker/Johnson 3tech.

2can def play both and two can play 3tech. Thats 4 guys on the roster that can play 3 tech

Again....why does hicks HAVE to play 3tech?....just cuz we see him as a ngata type player?

No ones saying he cant but u guys are forcing him into the position @ the expense of creating a new need..


Say our starting front 3 .....BASE..is Will Smith/Bunkley-Hicks/Jordan

How much are we going to play in our base vs nickel?

Its not 50/50 by a long shot... more like 60/40 nickel..


What two guys in the above are going to see the field the least?

Bunkley n Smith

If ur argument is getting hicks on the field more then from my point of view he will.

Even though he isnt a starter he would obviously see the field MORE because of being a mainstay in the nickel/dime because Smith/Bunk would be Two down guys anyway?

You are doing this without sacrificing depth in this scenario.


Lets say we did this and got Revis thru trade and didnt sign bushrod.


Tht would free us up to go

Lane Johnson
Devin Taylor
William Gholston
Montori Hughes
Jake Stoneburner

Something of tht nature but u see my point...

Gholston can come in and takeover for Smith in a year or two.
Hughes Could be the 1-2 with hicks in the future
Devin Taylor could come in as a 3rd down rusher
Johnson Gives us our Franchise LT
Stoneburner is our 3rd TE.

Filling holes...while also maintaining depth. No reaches no reason to trade back


Sorry im in GM mode

 

[sammymvpknight]

Great post and it actually cements my argument tht he should play shaded nose in our base and then move him around in the nickel.

However my counter argument has nothing to do with his ability...but more to do with logic

Check out John Jenkins/Kwame Geathers stats from last year

They are eerily similar with Geathers getting more TFL/Sacks and Jenkins more Tackles

My point.....how important a 1-2 punch@ NT is.


If you slot hicks@ DE who on the roster plays nose with Bunk?

You have successfully created another hole on your roster.
We are in transition...the last thing we want to do is create holes.

Do u dip in FA and sign another Vet NT...after just doing so last year?
DO you spend a 3rd rounder on Brandon Williams...a small school prospect tht u have to project can he come in and play tht #2 spot @ NT....which is VERY important
Or do u spend a 1st on a guy like John Jenkins or Jonathan Hankins?

Id prefer not to.

Id prefer to keep the TWO GUYS already on the roster tht have proven they can play the shaded nose in our base 3-4 under. Then maybe draft a guy like Kwame Geathers in the 5th/6th n bring him along slowly as the 3rd NT.

Now..the next thing is how much time will we spend in our base front?

When we move to nickel..u can play hicks all over the front and have him play whtever technique u want.

For the sake of making the type of transition i wouldnt want to creat a hole@ NT when we already have two guys tht have proven they can play the shaded nose.we have several guys tht can play 5 and 3 tech on the roster....and as of right nw 2 that can play shaded nose in the base.

Your back up NT doesn't need to be a big salary guy. And since it is a one gap responsibility, the position will be earlier to fill. And with as much NT that Hicks will play in nickel situations, the back up NT may only see about 15% of the snaps. And if Hicks is full time Nt, we would have to not only get depth at DE...we would need a starter. That's going to be more pricy. I think that ultimately Hicks versatility may allow the Saints to go BPA on the Dline. If Star slips...then Hicks plays 3-tech. If Richardson/Floyd slips...Hicks plays NT.
Lets just all feel blessed that the most difficult position to fill (and most important in my opinion) is filled with a stud in Cam Jordan.