Alec Baldwin Accidentally Kills Cinematographer on Set of New Movie (2 Viewers)

[bigdaddysaints]

If I hand you a gun and say it is empty would you put it to your head and pull the trigger? He pulled the trigger he is solely responsible.

Thats comparing apples and elephants.
This wasn't 2 guys hanging out in their man cave playing with a gun. There were multiple people people invloved in the process on making sure the gun wasn't live. There have been probably hundreds of thousands of times on movie sets where this protocol is followed to make sure this doesn't happen. The process failed, badly. The blame falls on the ones who are in charge of the process. I mentioned this earlier, you may not have seen it. If a scene invloves Alec Baldwin pushing someone off a roof, and the someone forgot to blow up the air bag all the way or placed it the wrong place and that person hits the ground and dies, is Baldwin soley responsible for his death?
Since we are using comparisons that are not relevant, what about if i buy a new car, and you rode with me. while we are pulling out of the car lot and a wheel falls off the car casing us to crash and you die, am i soley responsible for your death? I guess i should have made sure all the wheels were properly installed before i drove off.. I mean, i could keep going, but none of that is relevant...
But i have no doudt you are one who wants Baldwind responsible because of SNL...

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

If I hand you a gun and say it is empty would you put it to your head and pull the trigger? He pulled the trigger he is solely responsible.

Ah. Now that you or someone else has repeated the same thing for like the 8th time, I must concede to the strength of your argument

9th time

 

[DaveXA]

9th time

It certainly isn't a lack of effort, that's for sure.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

It certainly isn't a lack of effort, that's for sure.

i think lack of effort is precisely the issue
'this thread is 15 pages long, but there's no way the thrust of my searing insight has been brought up, so i don't need to read the thread and see if my point has been throttled twenty times
it's just lazy

 

[DaveXA]

i think lack of effort is precisely the issue
'this thread is 15 pages long, but there's no way the thrust of my searing insight has been brought up, so i don't need to read the thread and see if my point has been throttled twenty times
it's just lazy

Indeed. I meant no lack of effort on your part. I would have given up at 5th.

 

[Dago]

If I hand you a gun and say it is empty would you put it to your head and pull the trigger? He pulled the trigger he is solely responsible.

 

[Semper]

I am a firearms instructor. I do lots of classes and I often have another instructor assisting me. When he hands me a firearm I check to see if it's loaded. Not on occasion every single time. I teach my students to do the same. I also teach them to neve point a firearm at anyone, ever. I learned these same skills in junior high at school in 1981 taking a hunters safety course. Now that that is out of the way I can't stand Baldwin, in my opinion he is a buffoon much like any of the celebrity. However, he can't be held to the same standards. This is a movie set, I would imagine there are literally dozens of people on a set. They also hire people to control the firearms and safety of a firearm.

 

[Yatman]

yeah, baldwin water carriers are obviously the heavy lifters of this thread

If I hand you a gun and say it is empty would you put it to your head and pull the trigger?

a not unreasonable chain-of-custody question revisited by an industry expert

"If you’re capable of memorizing 120 pages of dialogue, you can memorize four lines of gun safety,” special effects and firearms expert Steve Wolf tells The Post.

"If that scene required him to put the gun to his head and pull the trigger, I’m sure he would have taken a look inside the gun. Wouldn’t you?"

https://nypost.com/2021/10/25/no-denying-alec-baldwins-role-in-shooting-mishap-tragedy/

 

[DaveXA]

yeah, baldwin water carriers are obviously the heavy lifters of this thread



a not unreasonable chain-of-custody question revisited by an industry expert


https://nypost.com/2021/10/25/no-denying-alec-baldwins-role-in-shooting-mishap-tragedy/

You do realize most of those "water carriers" don't much care for Baldwin. Every actor on a movie set has the same reasonable expectation that weapons on set aren't "live" and that the armorer is responsible for the safety of those props on set. There's legal precedent for situations similar to this, but you go ahead and beating that drum, misguided as it is.

 

[SWJJ]

The whole thing is a circular arguement anyway.

As a producer of the movie, Badwin ultimately deserves share of the blame. The crew walked off over safety issues prior to this.

He literally created the unsafe environment that allowed him to be handed a loaded gun.

He hired a prop master with a history of safety complaints, who hired his 24 year old daughter to be armorer (who is the one who loaded the weapon and failed to unload it after)

Doug Halls (who handed the weapon to Baldwin, without checking it was cleared) was fired from a show in 2017 because he failed to clear another weapon that ended up firing and not striking anyone.

Baldwin hired inept professionals with a history of violating safety protocols, and these unqualified people put a loaded weapon in his hand and he pulled the trigger.


You can not dice this up any way and not have a lion's share of the blame placed on Baldwin.

 

[Yatman]

Every actor on a movie set has the same reasonable expectation that weapons on set aren't "live" and that the armorer is responsible for the safety of those props on set. There's legal precedent for situations similar to this, but you go ahead and beating that drum, misguided as it is.

and you and others can continue to assert that on-set firearms safety legitimately ends with a pronouncement by "an expert" (in this case the assistant director)

meanwhile,

“I don’t recall ever being handed a weapon that was not cleared in front of me — meaning chamber open, barrel shown to me, light flashed inside the barrel to make sure that it’s cleared,” Wright said.

“They always — that I know of — they check it so you can see,” Liotta said. “They give it to the person you’re pointing the gun at, they do it to the producer, they show whoever is there that it doesn’t work.”

https://apnews.com/article/prop-gun...co-shootings-99fc103e2ddd69afcc1e123de2531871

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

INRATS but hard to understand why there would ever be a need for live ammunition of any kind on a movie set.

 

[DaveXA]

The whole thing is a circular arguement anyway.

As a producer of the movie, Badwin ultimately deserves share of the blame. The crew walked off over safety issues prior to this.

He literally created the unsafe environment that allowed him to be handed a loaded gun.

He hired a prop master with a history of safety complaints, who hired his 24 year old daughter to be armorer (who is the one who loaded the weapon and failed to unload it after)

Doug Halls (who handed the weapon to Baldwin, without checking it was cleared) was fired from a show in 2017 because he failed to clear another weapon that ended up firing and not striking anyone.

Baldwin hired inept professionals with a history of violating safety protocols, and these unqualified people put a loaded weapon in his hand and he pulled the trigger.


You can not dice this up any way and not have a lion's share of the blame placed on Baldwin.

It's already been stated in so many different ways that we don't know the extent of Balwin's responsibilities as producer or director. Actors in producer/directors roles are often little more than figureheads who don't make personnel and hiring decisions.

It may ultimately fall on him, which in that case, he would deserve it. But until we know to what extent he was involved in those decisions, it's hard to say to what degree he's culpable.

 

[mattgdg]

Baldwin deserves all level of mudslinging, mainly for Boss Baby.

 

[DaveXA]

INRATS but hard to understand why there would ever be a need for live ammunition of any kind on a movie set.

There obviously wasn't a need for it, but there have been unsubstantiated reports that there were some people doing some shooting with live rounds off set and one of the guns somehow made it onto the set. So it shouldn't have been there, and I'm assuming the armorer would be responsible for ensuring that didn't happen. That's what they're hired for.