Alec Baldwin Accidentally Kills Cinematographer on Set of New Movie (1 Viewer)

[bigdaddysaints]

Well, maybe. A case could be made that he did not hire that particular AD KNOWING that he would screw up and get someone killed. A case could be made that he was giving an AD a second chance at a career and accidents happen. I'm not an industry insider so I don't know what the chain of events should have been. I see comments by other actors about what they have experienced in the past, but is that the standard? What should the standard be? Should every actor be a weapons expert or stunt coordinator? Should it be required that an actor take a gun familiarization/safety course before handling a weapon on the set? These are all things we can only speculate about and give our opinions on. In my mind/opinion, whoever is in charge of weapons and weapons safety may face a criminally negligent charge and everyone in the chain of command responsible for hiring will probably get hit with a civil suit.

But SIBL stated the facts, so its an open shut case, convict him of murder.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

So it's not a fact that Baldwin is an executive producer for El Dorado Pictures, the company that is producing Rust. And is it not a fact that executive producers are the ones in charge of hiring people for the production of the film, and the hiring of people who had a track record of mishandling guns on previous sets(and before this accident which caused people to walk off the set over firearm safety issues). Tell me which one of those is not a fact.

Wow, you have such amazing insights on the film/tv biz…. I’d be curious to know what roles you’ve held in the entertainment industry that gave you such a strong knowledge of the intricacies and inner workings of these things.. Thanks in advance .

 

[Madmarsha]

I think it is often simplified to reasonable likelihood of result. Was the act or omission at issue reasonably likely to produce the result.

Not sure if that helps.

It does. Still a very complicated legal concept.

Having seen actor Alec doing his best in roles such as the megalomaniac evil doctor in "Malice" and his "I am God" speech and as less-evil-but-equally-as-megalomaniac head of GE programing and microwaving Jack Donaghy in "30 Rock" and real life Alec's megalomanic parenting and activism, it's easy to want to see a comeuppance. I've respected Alec's talent, never been impressed with his capability as a "good person". Seems as carried away with his Hollywood "I'm richer, more famous and talented, and better looking than you so I know better" persona as anyone. None of which makes him criminally guilty of anything. Still, it makes me wonder if his massive ego could have lead down one of those causal chains.

 

[SaintInBucLand]

It does. Still a very complicated legal concept.

Having seen actor Alec doing his best in roles such as the megalomaniac evil doctor in "Malice" and his "I am God" speech and as less-evil-but-equally-as-megalomaniac head of GE programing and microwaving Jack Donaghy in "30 Rock" and real life Alec's megalomanic parenting and activism, it's easy to want to see a comeuppance. I've respected Alec's talent, never been impressed with his capability as a "good person". Seems as carried away with his Hollywood "I'm richer, more famous and talented, and better looking than you so I know better" persona as anyone. None of which makes him criminally guilty of anything. Still, it makes me wonder if his massive ego could have lead down one of those causal chains.

His utter failings as a parent are what did it for me. Hearing him call a little girl a rude thoughtless little pig was enough for me. She was 11 at that time, and something like that can scar a child for life.

 

[SWJJ]

There is precendent:

‘Midnight Rider’ First AD Hillary Schwartz Guilty; Gets 10 Years Probation – Update

UPDATE, 9:52 AM with more details: Midnight Rider‘s first assistant director Hillary Schwartz was found guilty of criminal trespass and involuntary manslaughter today and will receive 10 years probation and no prison time. Under terms of the deal, she cannot be a director or assistant director...

deadline.com

Producer and assistant Director charged with involentary manslaughter (guilty verdicts and pleas) of a filming scene that killed a camera assistant.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

I don't think poor hiring is enough to support a homicide charge. There could there be some other lesser crime or perhaps regulatory violations but not homicide.

I was curious about this so I spent a few minutes in the New Mexico criminal statutes. I think the homicide charge that would be relevant here is involuntary manslaughter by lawful act. (See NM Stat. Sec. 30-2-3). That charge is effectively criminal negligence . . . which is what we appear to be dealing with here, presuming that nobody on that set did something intentional to put a live round in that gun to be used in the scene.

A critical element to criminal negligence in this context is the principle of proximate cause. Proximate cause is a cause or contributing factor that connects an injury to to action or omission. It doesn't necessarily have to be the most direct cause, but it also cannot be so attenuated along a causal chain that it can no longer be said that the outcome of injury was reasonably likely by the particular act or omission in question. From the standard New Mexico jury instructions, proximate cause is a cause that "in a natural and continuous sequence produces the injury, without which the injury would not have occurred."

I just don't think hiring is a proximate cause. But without knowing the full chain of events, I don't know whether there may be other acts or omissions in the production line for which Baldwin may have responsibility - that actually do amount to proximate cause. My sense of it now is still no, but I suppose there could be some specific act that gets to that point.

Thank you Chuck, we can always count on your expertise. What you posted would probably take most people hours and hours to look up.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

There is precendent:

‘Midnight Rider’ First AD Hillary Schwartz Guilty; Gets 10 Years Probation – Update

UPDATE, 9:52 AM with more details: Midnight Rider‘s first assistant director Hillary Schwartz was found guilty of criminal trespass and involuntary manslaughter today and will receive 10 years probation and no prison time. Under terms of the deal, she cannot be a director or assistant director...

deadline.com

Producer and assistant Director charged with involentary manslaughter (guilty verdicts and pleas) of a filming scene that killed a camera assistant.

But what she did was 100% illegal. Trespassing to film a scene, not coordinating with the company who owns the train. Thats much different . If all of that would have been legit, i serously doubt she would have been held responsible if it was just the fact that the train operator forgot to hit the breaks...

 

[UK SAINTS]

There is precendent:

‘Midnight Rider’ First AD Hillary Schwartz Guilty; Gets 10 Years Probation – Update

UPDATE, 9:52 AM with more details: Midnight Rider‘s first assistant director Hillary Schwartz was found guilty of criminal trespass and involuntary manslaughter today and will receive 10 years probation and no prison time. Under terms of the deal, she cannot be a director or assistant director...

deadline.com

Producer and assistant Director charged with involentary manslaughter (guilty verdicts and pleas) of a filming scene that killed a camera assistant.

This is the one that I referred to earlier.

 

[UK SAINTS]

...Should it be required that an actor take a gun familiarization/safety course before handling a weapon on the set?...

This part should be a no-brainer, IMO. I think that it should be the standard for ANYONE handling a firearm (on a set or in real life).

 

[superchuck500]

But what she did was 100% illegal. Trespassing to film a scene, not coordinating with the company who owns the train. Thats much different . If all of that would have been legit, i serously doubt she would have been held responsible if it was just the fact that the train operator forgot to hit the breaks...

That case also saw the Director charged and sentenced (see below).

From what I can tell, the AD was charged because she was responsible for safety on set and purportedly responsible for obtaining the permit to shoot on the tracks (which she didn't do). The Director was charged because he ordered the scene to film without knowing whether there was another train coming.

That case was in Georgia but I would expect that the involuntary manslaughter statutes are very similar.

I think this case shows how it really comes down to the specific duties that led to the incident. Simply hiring someone that doesn't do their job well isn't likely enough to support charges. But handling the gun and also failing to follow protocols to ensure gun safety and shooting a scene with gun fire certainly seem to be close enough (proximate cause) to support prosecution.

I think here we can expect the armorer and the AD to be charged. Others will depend on their specific relationship to the incident and how those responsibilities are delineated on a film set.

'Midnight Rider' Director Pleads Guilty to Manslaughter

'Midnight Rider' director Randall Miller received a 10-year sentence after pleading guilty to manslaughter for his role in a fatal on-set accident.

www.rollingstone.com

 

[Yatman]

Should it be required that an actor take a gun familiarization/safety course before handling a weapon on the set? These are all things we can only speculate about and give our opinions on.

actually, there's no need to speculate at all:

Actors' Equity Association, Safety Tips for Use of Firearms

The property master or armorer should carefully train you in the safe use of any firearm you must handle. Be honest if you have no knowledge about guns. Do not overstate your qualifications.

Check the firearm every time you take possession of it. Before each use, make sure the gun has been test-fired off stage and then ask to test fire it yourself. Watch the prop master check the cylinders and barrel to be sure no foreign object or dummy bullet has become lodged inside

Warner Bros, Firearms -- Safety on the Set

1. Treat all firearms as though they are loaded.
...
10. No person is to be coaxed, coerced or otherwise forced into handling a firearm. Before using any firearm, make sure you fully understand the operating features and safety devices on the firearm, and the precautions to be taken in handling a firearm.

Industry Wide Labor-Management Safety Committee, Safety Bulletin #1, Recommendations for Safety with Firearms and Use of Blank Ammunition

No one shall be issued a firearm until he or she is trained in safe handling, safe use, the safety lock, and proper firing procedures.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-59035488

my enjoyment of alec baldwin as a performer has nothing to do with this incident; it's about the act, not the actor

if drew brees had been doing a cameo as the gunslinger and had shot h.h., i'd want his hide on the wall, too

 

[Brad Mojo]

Having seen actor Alec doing his best in roles such as the megalomaniac evil doctor in "Malice" and his "I am God" speech and as less-evil-but-equally-as-megalomaniac head of GE programing and microwaving Jack Donaghy in "30 Rock" and real life Alec's megalomanic parenting and activism, it's easy to want to see a comeuppance. I've respected Alec's talent, never been impressed with his capability as a "good person". Seems as carried away with his Hollywood "I'm richer, more famous and talented, and better looking than you so I know better" persona as anyone. None of which makes him criminally guilty of anything. Still, it makes me wonder if his massive ego could have lead down one of those causal chains.

Also - "Coffee's for closers". He is really good at portraying a-holes.

 

[donato]

So it's not a fact that Baldwin is an executive producer for El Dorado Pictures, the company that is producing Rust. And is it not a fact that executive producers are the ones in charge of hiring people for the production of the film, and the hiring of people who had a track record of mishandling guns on previous sets(and before this accident which caused people to walk off the set over firearm safety issues). Tell me which one of those is not a fact.

Maybe, but the IMdB link you posted https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11001074/fullcredits/?ref_=tt_cl_sm

lists 12 producers, five of which are executive producers. Baldwin is listed only as producer. Does it matter? No idea.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Maybe, but the IMdB link you posted https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11001074/fullcredits/?ref_=tt_cl_sm

lists 12 producers, five of which are executive producers. Baldwin is listed only as producer. Does it matter? No idea.

I, too, have no idea what it means , in terms of his specific producing duties and responsibilities for this film…. But some posters here have VERY specific ideas as to what it means, and i just wish i had their ability to prognosticate and figure out such dynamics before the rest of the world even knows all the facts………… Must be nice

 

[Madmarsha]

Also - "Coffee's for closers". He is really good at portraying a-holes.

I never saw that movie. I am familiar with it, though, and already heard a "joke" trading on the "Always Be Closing" theme. I won't repeat it.

A very young Alec also -- perhaps not terribly memorable except to long-time Knots Landing viewers -- portrayed a pretty awful, charismatic preacher, Rev. Joshua Rush, early on in his TV career.