Alec Baldwin Accidentally Kills Cinematographer on Set of New Movie (2 Viewers)

[guidomerkinsrules]

I think she’s going to be charged with something.

Her, whichever producer ignored the stunt double’s complaints and hired scabs, and the AD who said the gun was cold will all be charged probably
(Or the 1st and 3rd will and 2nd will get plenty of lawsuits)

 

[superchuck500]

Her, whichever producer ignored the stunt double’s complaints and hired scabs, and the AD who said the gun was cold will all be charged probably
(Or the 1st and 3rd will and 2nd will get plenty of lawsuits)

Hard to say - those things might be negligent on a civil standard but probably not criminal. For example, if the AD though it was cold because the armorer said it was, it’s hard to see how that person is criminally culpable. And hiring typically isn’t criminal - though negligent hiring can support civil liability.

 

[HoustonSaint68]

Wrong. The actors go through training with firearms. Yes, the armorer has the responsibility but so do the actors. Every actor is told, shown, and trained to take every step available to ensure a firearm is safe. The actors are trained to check every firearm is safe before using them. Don't pass the buck solely to the armorer.

No, that’s not the way safety protocols normally work.

 

[HoustonSaint68]

I think she’s going to be charged with something.

“Regardless of what may have happened, members of the union IATSE say that multiple gun safety protocols were breached.

'We have a hard and fast rule that no live ammunition ever goes into a prop truck or set at any time. We just don't do it.

'If you see bullets on set they are complete dummy rounds and are in no way functional. This goes back to Brandon Lee. There's protocol.

'Many, many people had to fail at the protocols we set on place for this to happen,' Zachary Knight, a member of the IATSE Local 44 union, told DailyMail.com on Friday”.

 

[HoustonSaint68]

Another good article about safety protocol:

‘Totally preventable and shocking’: props masters talk on-set shootings

After the accidental death of Halyna Hutchins on the set of Rust, professionals discuss gun safety in Hollywood

www.theguardian.com

As for performer responsibility, it (rightly) appears very limited:

“Even with all experts on set adhering to all protocols, performers still need to follow the script. The anonymous props master recalled an incident with a popular actor who fired only two blank rounds when he was scripted for three. When the props department went to take the gun back “he shot the gun down into the ground, which is essentially safe – no one got hurt, and no one would get hurt – but he fired it unknowingly and everyone freaked out, and they turned to look at us”.“

 

[DaveXA]

I think she’s going to be charged with something.

Is there a negligent manslaughter? Or involuntary?

But something that is still bugging me is how Balwin's double did somehow shoot bullets? If that's what happened, how was that all not checked and double checked so that the live ammo that was on the set was removed?

I originally had to think the live ammo in the gun Baldwin used was planted by someone who meant harm. But for that to happen twice in the same week? Not coincidence.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

unless you have some "hollywood insider" scoop, it's apparent that alec baldwin pulled the trigger of the gun that killed and wounded his crewmembers

are you saying if the stunt was to push someone off a roof and someone forgot to inflate the airbag, it would have been his fault because he pushed.someone off the roof? that's quite silly..

 

[HoustonSaint68]

But something that is still bugging me is how Balwin's double did somehow shoot bullets? If that's what happened, how was that all not checked and double checked so that the live ammo that was on the set was removed?

Yeah, If this prior incident actually did occur, I expect an investigation would very closely look at why there was not a safety stand down to suss out the immediate underlying cause with a related consideration of appropriate subsequent action. Then to pile on top of that a change out of a union safety crew with an inexperienced non-union replacement — yikes, that’s bad.

But, it’s all speculation pending the actual fact finding.

 

[DaveXA]

Yeah, If this prior incident actually did occur, I expect an investigation would very closely look at why there was not a safety stand down to suss out the immediate underlying cause with a related consideration of appropriate subsequent action. Then to pile on top of that a change out of a union safety crew with an inexperienced non-union replacement — yikes, that’s bad.

But, it’s all speculation pending the actual fact finding.

Yeah, just so much that doesn't add up right now. I'm waiting for that "more to the story" part to come out.

 

[HoustonSaint68]

Yeah, just so much that doesn't add up right now. I'm waiting for that "more to the story" part to come out.

Indeed, although it will be surprising if there is not at least some element of trying to move fast under budget pressure.

It’s easy to (appropriately) point to Challenger, Deepwater Horizon , Hard Rock Cafe, etc., but the reality is that every single day thousands of projects and other human activities, large and small, are moving forward under the same pressures, and either by luck, design or a combination of both, nothing happens.

As the old business saw goes: “Fast, cheap or quality — pick two.”

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Is there a negligent manslaughter? Or involuntary?

But something that is still bugging me is how Balwin's double did somehow shoot bullets? If that's what happened, how was that all not checked and double checked so that the live ammo that was on the set was removed?

I originally had to think the live ammo in the gun Baldwin used was planted by someone who meant harm. But for that to happen twice in the same week? Not coincidence.

One of the articles posted yesterday indicated there was a stink raised about the first gun mishap, but the complainers were fired (I don’t think this was the only complaint)
new people were brought in and the next day the tragedy happened

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Indeed, although it will be surprising if there is not at least some element of trying to move fast under budget pressure.

It’s easy to (appropriately) point to Challenger, Deepwater Horizon , Hard Rock Cafe, etc., but the reality is that every single day thousands of projects and other human activities, large and small, are moving forward under the same pressures, and either by luck, design or a combination of both, nothing happens.

As the old business saw goes: “Fast, cheap or quality — pick two.”

Yep, as one article pointed out, when you have a tragic incident like this, it isnt just one or two things that went wrong- it’s a CASCADE of bad things that went wrong…. I think what we (likely) know already is that there was some pretty monumental ineptness at play, between the union/non-union stuff, the almost brand new 24 year old armorer and other stuff that’s been discussed.. if i were a betting man, I’d bet that Baldwin himself will (most likely) have some culpability legally as he is one of the producers of the film, though i cant imagine he’ll have any culpability as an actor who was handed the weapon which ultimately killed the cinematographer.. not that it matters, it still sucks for him.. financially speaking, it’s the film’s insurers who’ll wind up paying.. but there are still months and years to go before any of this is definitive.

 

[Zack Lee]

Yep, as one article pointed out, when you have a tragic incident like this, it isnt just one or two things that went wrong- it’s a CASCADE of bad things that went wrong…. I think what we (likely) know already is that there was some pretty monumental ineptness at play, between the union/non-union stuff, the almost brand new 24 year old armorer and other stuff that’s been discussed.. if i were a betting man, I’d bet that Baldwin himself will (most likely) have some culpability legally as he is one of the producers of the film, though i cant imagine he’ll have any culpability as an actor who was handed the weapon which ultimately killed the cinematographer.. not that it matters, it still sucks for him.. financially speaking, it’s the film’s insurers who’ll wind up paying.. but there are still months and years to go before any of this is definitive.

I didn’t realize he was one of the producers. That does change things a bit. If they were cutting corners left and right then there will be plenty of blame to go around.

 

[DaveXA]

Yep, as one article pointed out, when you have a tragic incident like this, it isnt just one or two things that went wrong- it’s a CASCADE of bad things that went wrong…. I think what we (likely) know already is that there was some pretty monumental ineptness at play, between the union/non-union stuff, the almost brand new 24 year old armorer and other stuff that’s been discussed.. if i were a betting man, I’d bet that Baldwin himself will (most likely) have some culpability legally as he is one of the producers of the film, though i cant imagine he’ll have any culpability as an actor who was handed the weapon which ultimately killed the cinematographer.. not that it matters, it still sucks for him.. financially speaking, it’s the film’s insurers who’ll wind up paying.. but there are still months and years to go before any of this is definitive.

While he was one of the producers, I do recall reading he was supportive of the union, so I'm wondering if it wasn't up to him to make the call to continue producing the show.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Yep, as one article pointed out, when you have a tragic incident like this, it isnt just one or two things that went wrong- it’s a CASCADE of bad things that went wrong…. I think what we (likely) know already is that there was some pretty monumental ineptness at play, between the union/non-union stuff, the almost brand new 24 year old armorer and other stuff that’s been discussed.. if i were a betting man, I’d bet that Baldwin himself will (most likely) have some culpability legally as he is one of the producers of the film, though i cant imagine he’ll have any culpability as an actor who was handed the weapon which ultimately killed the cinematographer.. not that it matters, it still sucks for him.. financially speaking, it’s the film’s insurers who’ll wind up paying.. but there are still months and years to go before any of this is definitive.

I have to imagine he was one of those ‘in name only’ producers - like this type of movie only gets green lit if a B/C star is on it and they can’t offer that star a competitive salary so they give producer credentials and points