All this Dennis Allen Hate (1 Viewer)

[Trey W.]

If that was true there would never be such a thing as a "bad player". Any team with a good coaching staff would win the SB every year. Really bad "hot take" on a subject that requires a bit more nuance....

Not true, if a team has a bad player then it is the Coaches job to either train that player better or put in a better player.

 

[MJ in Calif]

Can one of you Dennis Allen haters expound on why you think we should part ways with him?

Which play call or scheme did you expect one thing, he did the other, and you knew (without the benefit of hindsight) that it was a mistake. For example, I've seen plays in the past where you know we should flood coverage because the QB and OL is consistently picking up and picking apart the blitz. We then blitz sand we get burned.

Are you blaming him because players are not playing as well as in the past? Do you think he's stopped coaching? Is it Dennis Allen's fault our players don't have gap integrity or bite on play fakes? Did Dennis Allen draft and sign safeties who don't know how to play in zone coverage...like at all?

I really just don't get the hate and it's seems to be spreading like wild fire on this forum. Everyone wants to come to the rescue to garbage players and blame it all on the coaches.

I'm gonna remind everyone here that the biggest criticism most have had with DA over his tenure had been his 2 minute defense play calling being too conservative and ineffective. I felt that way too...but has that been an issue this season? I think some of his best work has come in those situations this season.

The problem with this defense is not scheme. It's execution. If these millionaire athletes can execute the scheme, we're dominant right now. Problem is, they either can't or just aren't.

I wouldn't call it hate, and I do feel the criticism is warranted. Take the long TD pass to Moore. Yes, MW screwed up however it appears to me that the scheme called for MW to attempt to run with Moore. Even if he doesn't mess this up, what do you think would have happened? Moore would have still torched him for a TD or MW would have committed PI on the play. Still a bad scheme. My guess is they are expecting a better pass rush but you cannot always rely on that. IDK.

Then also, why have CGJ man up on Robbie Anderson? CGJ is a safety and his strength is making plays near the LOS as well as being allowed to roam the secondary. I might man him up on a TE but not Robbie Anderson. Again, just bad scheming IMHO and that falls on DA.

 

[NativeFan]

I don't get it either OP. Since taking over the defense we've steadily improved. His last two seasons the defense was ranked in the top 5 in several categories. We've sent lots of players to the Pro Bowl, we've won playoff games. We've had regular season win totals most teams would die for. Allen took a team that was miserable on road games and built a defense that held teams to 18.5 points away from the 'Dome. On and on it goes.

He's widely regarded among the league (you know, people who actually know football) as one of the best DC's and a great coach. Payton certainly trusts him and respects him and he doesn't seem like someone who lets personal feelings cloud his professional judgment.

People get frustrated and want simple solutions I guess. Fire everyone and bring back Rob Ryan I guess, I'm so sure that will help things lol.

 

[NativeFan]

Not true, if a team has a bad player then it is the Coaches job to either train that player better or put in a better player.

Right there's nothing like the salary cap, just get/put in "better players" lol. Brilliant! Why didn't anyone else think of this stuff?

 

[T.Sneden84]

the constant lapses in big/pivotal moments late in games gotta fall somewhere.

 

[Zztop]

They have too much talent on D to be this poor. I don't think SP will fire DA though. Too much loyalty. Remember it took like 10 years before he fired Vitt? Lattimore was pretty great his first season, and every season since has been in decline. What else could it be besides coaching? MW has had the same problems since his rookie year, but never got them corrected. That has to be coaching.

 

[slikk]

It's on the players can't keep blaming schemes and game plans every week. Some of these players need to be cut or benched for poor performance. Lack of tackling,Horrible awareness and communication week to week. Some of these players give better interview answers more than anything else.

 

[Trey W.]

Right there's nothing like the salary cap, just get/put in "better players" lol. Brilliant! Why didn't anyone else think of this stuff?

I don't care who the player is or how much he makes, if he can't learn to play, is constantly out of position, or just flat out sucks then sit him on the bench and put someone in that will. That's one thing I love about Sean, he doesn't care how the player gets on the team, draft, FA, UDFA; the best players will stay (just like with Pierre UDFA and Antonio whoever (3rd rd pick).

We've had 4 years to draft or sign a FS. Williams is still on his rookie contract so it's not like he's breaking the bank. Even with the players we currently have on the roster, PJ Williams, Swearinger, Hampton, Hardee, someone has to be able to comprehend assignments and understand what a FS does. These guys may not be as athletic as M. Williams but like I said before, athleticism is only part of being a successful player. If said player can't pick up scheme and his assignments then he doesn't need to be on the field.

 

[acb814]

If anything the talent has been saving us despite the awful schemes. Game saving tackle by Lattimore and game saving sack by Davenport show me the players are giving their best efforts but they aren’t being put in the best situations. The tackle Lattimore made was due to pure talent and effort cause that should have been an easy conversion for mike Williams. If Davenport doesn’t get the sack according to Bridgewater they had the perfect play called and would have scored. Thank god we have so much talent to cover for the inconsistent coaching.

 

[Meachemdat]

This is the wrong year to go after the DC. Every team in the NFL sucks on defense right now.

As far as breaking down at the end of games, I seem to remember the defense getting a Key stop yesterday that sealed the game.

Not sure what these guys are all looking at, but the players are making huge mistakes and it's not necessarily scheme. Well maybe some of it is.

Let's take that 70 yard bomb:
PJ in slot, Latt on outside, Malcom and Williams deep safeties and Janoris Jenkins on outside.

Onyematta is told to drop in coverage to defend the RB (why?) Anzalone has no idea who to defend, Lattimore doesn't stick with his guy letting him run free (why not even try to bump him?!) PJ Williams is defending no one, Marcus Williams comes down to cover the guy Latt let run free. Janoris does well and Malcom comes to defend his guy for no reason at all.

Leaving a wide open WR running free with no DB in sight.

Secondary HAS to get cleaned up somehow, but they did play a lot better in the 2nd half.

 

[BreesusSaves]

We’ve known DA was ... above average??
and made good in game adjustments
But whether it him or Aaron Glenn, someone is not getting the most out of their players
No one is doing for their position groups what Nolan did last year for LBs
even Nielsen seems a mixed bag this year

how is it that players consistently forget how to play in this D?

Nielsen has been phenomenal this year, you're not this good against the run without an elite Defensive Line. However a Defensive Line needs at least a little bit of help from the secondary for them to get to the QB. When everyone is always open, a pass rush has no chance to get to the QB. The plays the DL has gotten to the QB is when it is a deep shot. But the checkdowns are always there for easy completions.

I'm working on a more detailed post breaking down why Dennis Allen is not a good Defensive Coordinator and will post it when I can.

 

[Pensacola]

How many times have you heard a head coach at his post-game media coverage say, “It starts with us, the coaching staff”. Well then ...

 

[sfidc3]

I said it in many thread. Those two are a factor, especially Klein. He knows how to get the right calls and signals to the players. Bell was always at the right place at the right time. He was never given enough credit.

I think there is something to this. Klein called the defensive alignments on the field, there never seem to be the kind of confusion we see this year. Maybe part of the problem is we don't have that coach on the field player like Klein. He was also good for creating 3-4 turnovers a year and he was really underrated by the fans IMO.....

It is either DA and his schemes (I would like to see them play man to man more often) or the players that have regressed due to whatever reason (work ethic, attitude issues), I guess it could even be a combination of the two but whatever it is, it is really frustrating....hopefully with MD back our pass rush improves....

 

[gofastfreddie]

We haven't given up a 100 yard rusher since 2017. Think about how great his run stopping scheme is....

We could do much worse than Dennis Allen at DC

 

[blackadder]

Well, for starters Dennis Allen coached Jenkins for 2 years with the Saints and set him on his underperforming path.

Allen went to the Broncos as DC in 2011 for one year and his defense was at the upper end of the bottom third of the league. Then he got the HC job in Oakland and you saw how that went.

Then Payton brought him back to coach the Secondary and be a minder/handler for Rob Ryan. All time bad defenses with especially atrocious secondarys. And, I would add, Rob Ryan did not ask for help...that was forced on Ryan by Payton. Terrible management.

Anyway, then based on all that Allen gets elevated to DC.

Every year we have started slowly and he has had to adjust. Never ready out of the gate. Run defense is sound but he is a secondary expert and always there are breakdowns, gaffe's and big plays. Minneapolis Miracle is a microcosm in terms of leaving your worst open field tackler on island as last line of defense in that situation.

Then there is the clear pattern that the back end players only regress under his tutelage. Literally no one improves in the secondary. Eli Apple came in strong and got worse.

I don't see in all that the reason for Payton to hire him other than familiarity or once again hiring someone he knows will be loyal and unchallenging.

I don't know who makes the personnel decisions but in the end the product on the field has Allen's name on it and will impact his career as he looks for jobs down the line. In other organizations if you look at this track record is this someone you would want to hire?

With zero inside information on the internal dynamics of decisions, all I can do as a fan is step back and look at results. Ultimately it is Payton that is accountable since 2006 for one of the more consistently futile defensive football programs in league history, but Dennis Allen had his hands in some bad football too. If Allen is handcuffed by the GM or Payton's meddling, well OK. But then he would be best served to move on. In any case, it is known he runs one of the most complicated schemes and seems to be stubborn about it.