All this Dennis Allen Hate (1 Viewer)

[NativeFan]

I find the hoops you jump through to avoid placing any blame on Allen quite interesting.

Oh and about this, it's just a pet peeve of mine when bad players run good coaches out of town. Players are getting a bit...catered too. Go ask those Cowboy players how running Jason Garret out of town worked out for them...

 

[BreesusSaves]

I just can't understand how you have Crawly and Marcus Williams right there when Diggs catches the ball, Marcus Williams closes his eyes and tables the wrong player, and that's somehow the coaches fault? Sorry man, you can not like that play call, prefer a different one... But that play was a failure to execute a pass breakup of tackle.
Here's an example of bad playcalling. Playing 10 years off the ball when teams prefer to throw short passes all have long... Never disrupting routes at the line of scrimmage when they're running West coast... Not disguising or mixing up blitz packages... Consistently putting a pass rusher in coverage... These are the things that bad DCs do. That's just my opinion, but I think Dennis Allen has done a really good job since he's gotten here.

My focus was Dennis Allen because this is a Dennis Allen thread, that doesn't mean I am giving a pass to one of the worst attempts at a tackle I have ever seen. The defensive play call was bad. The execution was bad. I don't have enough time right now to do a full breakdown of the overall colossal failure the final 10 seconds of the 2017 playoffs was for the Saints.

Also, the best defensive game of the season for the Saints was against the bucs. Since then, they've been exploited by wide open deep passes, underneath passes, giving WRs free releases when it is supposed to be press coverage, dropping DE's into pass coverage, never adjusting to Tight Ends... all the things you talk about bad DC's doing, Dennis Allen has done this season.

Oh and about this, it's just a pet peeve of mine when bad players run good coaches out of town. Players are getting a bit...catered too. Go ask those Cowboy players how running Jason Garret out of town worked out for them...

This isn't a case of a good DC being run out of town by bad players.

Malcolm Jenkins and Patrick Robinson made the All Pro team with the Eagles. Janoris Jenkins was All Pro with the Giants. Marshon Lattimore won Defensive Rookie of the Year. No one can deny there is real talent on this team, especially in the secondary. They look confused, constantly out of position. Constantly we see half the secondary in a zone while the others play man. Corners expecting safety help while the safeties "jump" routes acting like it is a man scheme with the safety as a roamer with no assignment. The overall scheme is bad, the players don't understand it. It is really hard to pin this on the players when three were elite enough to be named All Pro on different teams and another was named DROY here. Marcus Williams is a growing liability, but unfortunately he's not the only one having problems on defense. The secondary as a whole is lost, and based on Payton's comments today, the frustration is no longer something even he can contain.

 

[Saintslfc13]

Holding the players accountable is great and I'm all for it but the main reason I think it has to be coaching at least as much as the players is because they keep making the same mistakes over and over. Marcus Williams keeps jumping the out or underneath routes over and over. I can't imagine that the coaches see that on film, tell him to stop doing it, and he keeps doing it anyway without there being any sort of repercussions. Even if it's just benching him for a series you would think something would be done. They have to be okay with it. Our LBs constantly look confused in coverage, even Davis (although with him part of me thinks he's just trying to anticipate who's gonna breakdown so he can fly over there to try to save the day). Anzalone has been able to stay healthy passed his usual expiration date but has regressed coverage wise. Lattimore consistently allows offensive players to make a move before he tries to tackle them on dump offs, when he could just fly to the football and AT WORST tackle them immediately after they catch the ball. Matter of fact most of the secondary outside of Latt and JJ seem to be playing madden in their heads trying to "hit stick" everyone, 43 is the worst at this but 27, CGJ and PJ all do it too. These are constant mistakes, some of which are at the fundamental level. I just can't see how any coach can't see these things so they must be telling them to do them. Even our blitzing, as complicated and confusing for the offense as they're supposed to be seem to get picked up with relative ease most of the time, that's not saying they don't work sometimes but it's saying that usually the offense gets at hat on our blitzers (not to mention the whiffs but that's a player issue) and slows it down.

I do think maybe Allen wants too much reacting and not enough playing out of his players as well, which leads to the confusion and the timidity on coming up to make tackles, and probably to the secondary getting burnt off the line at times as well. The d-line has looked better, albeit not spectacular with Davenport back, and we still play the run very well. Those are the positives, everything else is mediocre at best and flat out bad at worst.

I originally had this in another thread but think it fits better here.

 

[SaintStephen1]

You're blaming his scheme for having a guy right there in a position to make a really easy tackle to win the game. Why do I feel like if Allen had 2 or 3 guys there, and they failed, he would be blamed for not having 4 guys there. Talk about Monday morning quarterbacking here, come on.

Players play, or not in this case.

Ridiculous, Native poster was right on.

 

[NativeFan]

My focus was Dennis Allen because this is a Dennis Allen thread, that doesn't mean I am giving a pass to one of the worst attempts at a tackle I have ever seen. The defensive play call was bad. The execution was bad. I don't have enough time right now to do a full breakdown of the overall colossal failure the final 10 seconds of the 2017 playoffs was for the Saints.

Also, the best defensive game of the season for the Saints was against the bucs. Since then, they've been exploited by wide open deep passes, underneath passes, giving WRs free releases when it is supposed to be press coverage, dropping DE's into pass coverage, never adjusting to Tight Ends... all the things you talk about bad DC's doing, Dennis Allen has done this season.



This isn't a case of a good DC being run out of town by bad players.

Malcolm Jenkins and Patrick Robinson made the All Pro team with the Eagles. Janoris Jenkins was All Pro with the Giants. Marshon Lattimore won Defensive Rookie of the Year. No one can deny there is real talent on this team, especially in the secondary. They look confused, constantly out of position. Constantly we see half the secondary in a zone while the others play man. Corners expecting safety help while the safeties "jump" routes acting like it is a man scheme with the safety as a roamer with no assignment. The overall scheme is bad, the players don't understand it. It is really hard to pin this on the players when three were elite enough to be named All Pro on different teams and another was named DROY here. Marcus Williams is a growing liability, but unfortunately he's not the only one having problems on defense. The secondary as a whole is lost, and based on Payton's comments today, the frustration is no longer something even he can contain.

You say they are great talented pros then say they look confused about simple assignments and that's the coaches fault?? Okay whatever. Maybe these guys are getting old and have lost a step. Maybe the Giants let Jenkins go for a reason.

Lattimore was rookie of the year, yes. Since then he doesn't play hungry now that he got paid and commits PI's. Hows that coaching?

 

[BreesusSaves]

You say they are great talented pros then say they look confused about simple assignments and that's the coaches fault?? Okay whatever. Maybe these guys are getting old and have lost a step. Maybe the Giants let Jenkins go for a reason.

Lattimore was rookie of the year, yes. Since then he doesn't play hungry now that he got paid and commits PI's. Hows that coaching?

At this point I'm just going to assume you're a troll if you're THIS uninformed about the players.

 

[blackadder]

You say they are great talented pros then say they look confused about simple assignments and that's the coaches fault?? Okay whatever. Maybe these guys are getting old and have lost a step. Maybe the Giants let Jenkins go for a reason.

Lattimore was rookie of the year, yes. Since then he doesn't play hungry now that he got paid and commits PI's. Hows that coaching?

Because the coaches job is also to pay attention to performance and maintain accountability not on rep or last year but on last week and Allen does not. No fire lit under these guys and no accountability.
That is coaching.

When you have Marcus Willians who gave you the Minneapolis Miracle and last year was dragged And humiliated by George Kittle to lose that game and still making errors to give up chunks IT IS THE COACHES FAULT WHEN HE ALLOWS IT TO CONTINUE.

 

[NativeFan]

At this point I'm just going to assume you're a troll if you're THIS uninformed about the players.

What evidence do you have that they are really all that good? I'm not uninformed I'm judging what's on the field. It's not trolling to disagree with you loudmouths. Stop trying to bully and just discuss. Or shut up and block me if this is how you act.

 

[Walter White]

Because the coaches job is also to pay attention to performance and maintain accountability not on rep or last year but on last week and Allen does not. No fire lit under these guys and no accountability.
That is coaching.

When you have Marcus Willians who gave you the Minneapolis Miracle and last year was dragged And humiliated by George Kittle to lose that game and still making errors to give up chunks IT IS THE COACHES FAULT WHEN HE ALLOWS IT TO CONTINUE.

Exactly. There should be some sort of improvement seen after having this core group as long as we’ve had them.

 

[BreesusSaves]

What evidence do you have that they are really all that good? I'm not uninformed I'm judging what's on the field. It's not trolling to disagree with you loudmouths. Stop trying to bully and just discuss. Or shut up and block me if this is how you act.

You don't know the contract status of one of the highest profile players on the Saints, you've ignored countless walls of text myself and many others have posted supporting our claims, you ignore massive posts filled with statistics, your counter-arguments always boil down to "players play" or blaming the offense while offering nothing to genuinely support Dennis Allen schematically. The fact you're asking for what evidence I have that the players are actually good when they were named to the AP All Pro team, which is NOT a popularity contest and actually put together based on performance by 50 NFL writers and broadcasters, is honestly hilarious. But please, keep calling me a bully for constantly putting out well broken down facts, statistics, and opinions. It just makes your position even weaker.

 

[Trey W.]

Because the coaches job is also to pay attention to performance and maintain accountability not on rep or last year but on last week and Allen does not. No fire lit under these guys and no accountability.
That is coaching.

When you have Marcus Willians who gave you the Minneapolis Miracle and last year was dragged And humiliated by George Kittle to lose that game and still making errors to give up chunks IT IS THE COACHES FAULT WHEN HE ALLOWS IT TO CONTINUE.

I don’t think NativeFan has ever played any type of organized sports or he would understand the actual role of a Coach!

 

[crawfish2010]

I posted a similar thread after the Chargers game and most people didn't agree with the thread.

Dennis Allen is not the problem

Players get paid to make plays. Here are plays that the players were in a position to make a game changing play but they didn't. This is not the fault of Dennis Allen or Aaron Glenn.1st TD. Malcolm Jenkins and Cam Jordan both get free. Malcolm Jenkins ends up on his butt and allows Hebert...

saintsreport.com

 

[NativeFan]

You don't know the contract status of one of the highest profile players on the Saints, you've ignored countless walls of text myself and many others have posted supporting our claims, you ignore massive posts filled with statistics, your counter-arguments always boil down to "players play" or blaming the offense while offering nothing to genuinely support Dennis Allen schematically. The fact you're asking for what evidence I have that the players are actually good when they were named to the AP All Pro team, which is NOT a popularity contest and actually put together based on performance by 50 NFL writers and broadcasters, is honestly hilarious. But please, keep calling me a bully for constantly putting out well broken down facts, statistics, and opinions. It just makes your position even weaker.

I have NO clue what you mean by contract status of players being part of this debate. We've never even discussed that? The rest of your accusations are patently unfair and wrong. I haven't "ignored" all these things, I've responded to them and offered counter-points. This is called "debate".

You are clearly frustrated that I won't conform to your opinions on this that Dennis Allen is solely to blame for all our issues and his head should be on a pike. I've offered up things that you've "ignored" too like defense being down league-wide and players blowing clear-cut easy assignments. Quarterback pressure would also help our secondary but I suppose it's Dennis Allen's "scheme" for the reason why Jordan looks unable to beat a double team anymore. I guess he didn't get the memo that once you've been named to the All Pro team, you're above reproach and can do no wrong and never get old.

I think you should submit your application to the Saints for DC, clearly you're a world-class expert on defense. You have my vote sir!

 

[NativeFan]

I posted a similar thread after the Chargers game and most people didn't agree with the thread.

Dennis Allen is not the problem

Players get paid to make plays. Here are plays that the players were in a position to make a game changing play but they didn't. This is not the fault of Dennis Allen or Aaron Glenn.1st TD. Malcolm Jenkins and Cam Jordan both get free. Malcolm Jenkins ends up on his butt and allows Hebert...

saintsreport.com

Keep posting it. There's a lot more of us here who would agree with you, but you can see what happens here when they speak on it. They are met with hostility, accusations of "trolling" and just otherwise uncivil rebukes and accusations of ignorance. So most people are just going to be quiet so they don't have to deal with all that BS. I bet a lot more people appreciated your thread than you think.

We don't see the coaching sessions so we can't judge them. We can only judge what's on the field. Guys getting beat, guys not running hard, guys out of position and guys not understanding simple coverage.? Williams letting guys run past him while he runs to guys double-covered already? You KNOW he's been coached not to do that a gillian times going back to college. That aint coaching, it's on the field, and that's what you and I are judging it on.

If these guys were calling for Glenn's head that would be one thing, I would probably agree with them. We are seeing mistakes and blunders that are central to being a defensive back, that's not Allens job. That's a position coaches job. You're confused about how you're supposed to cover? That's not the scheme, that's fundamentals. Allen isn't working on fundamentals, Glenn is supposed to be.

 

[BreesusSaves]

I have NO clue what you mean by contract status of players being part of this debate. We've never even discussed that?

Since then he doesn't play hungry now that he got paid

The rest of your accusations are patently unfair and wrong. I haven't "ignored" all these things, I've responded to them and offered counter-points. This is called "debate".

You are clearly frustrated that I won't conform to your opinions on this that Dennis Allen is solely to blame for all our issues and his head should be on a pike. I've offered up things that you've "ignored" too like defense being down league-wide and players blowing clear-cut easy assignments. Quarterback pressure would also help our secondary but I suppose it's Dennis Allen's "scheme" for the reason why Jordan looks unable to beat a double team anymore. I guess he didn't get the memo that once you've been named to the All Pro team, you're above reproach and can do no wrong and never get old.

I think you should submit your application to the Saints for DC, clearly you're a world-class expert on defense. You have my vote sir!

If that's how you want to see it, fine with me. You're not changing your stance, I'm not changing mine. Have a nice day