And you wonder why they get radicalized... burkini ban in France (1 Viewer)

[PurpleBlack&Gold]

This reminds me of something I read about recently...

oh yeah

Louisiana Law Makes 'Saggy Pants' a Criminal Offense - Counter Current News

 

[Brennan77]

This reminds me of something I read about recently...

oh yeah

Louisiana Law Makes 'Saggy Pants' a Criminal Offense - Counter Current News

I immediately thought of that as well.

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[Arathrael]

It's an idiotic approach. You can't counter a religion oppressively telling women what to wear by becoming a government oppressively telling women what not to wear.

 

[JimEverett]

In America (perhaps in Britain too, not sure) the dominant conception of "freedom", at least in theory, has pretty much always been "freedom to" - meaning that freedom equals self-expression, myriad of choices, unlimited potential, etc. In actual practice we don't always follow that ideal but it still dominates the conception of freedom that we have.

But its actually a fairly radical way of conceiving freedom, as most cultures see some degree of "freedom" as being defined as "freedom from" - where there are clearly defined social orders, people have defined roles, choice is limited and curtailed. This equals a sort of freedom. This is what justifies, to some extent, the whole idea of a burka, burkarina, etc. in some Muslim societies, it also explains, again - to some extent, the limitation on free speech in otherwise "western democracies" in Europe.

The French, moreso than any other western country, strike me as the least capable or willing to understand the American rationale for freedom of speech, expression, religion . . . Other such nations don't necessarily follow the U.S. ideal, but the French are unique in their almost stubborn refusal to understand it at times. So its not surprising that something like this happens in France, and not - say Germany, Italy, or the UK.

Sadly, though, I think what we see on U.S. universities is leading us away from our stringent support of the idea - even if we have failed to actually follow it in many instances.

 

[Goatman Saint]

Jim, could you expand on the last paragraph? You have me thinking and I'd like to hear the rest of that thought.


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[JimEverett]

Somewhat simply - those in charge appear to be making the case in some places that certain expressive content should be banned because some students are entitled to "freedom from" that expressive content.
At least some of the arguments for stifling expression on college campuses is couched in "rights" language. A lot of it is couched in some sort of "greater good" language as well.
Rape jokes aren't just distasteful, they should not be allowed because people should be free from hearing/seeing/exposed to something potentially traumatizing.

 

[Galbreath34]

Two of the four freedoms were freedoms from (want and fear).

 

[Goatman Saint]

Somewhat simply - those in charge appear to be making the case in some places that certain expressive content should be banned because some students are entitled to "freedom from" that expressive content.

At least some of the arguments for stifling expression on college campuses is couched in "rights" language. A lot of it is couched in some sort of "greater good" language as well.

Rape jokes aren't just distasteful, they should not be allowed because people should be free from hearing/seeing/exposed to something potentially traumatizing.

That's what I thought you ment, and agree with you completely.


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[Jeff Miller]

That's really American of you. Congratulations.

What part of my statement is american? That religion is bull **** or that Muslim men should wear burkas?

neither of which is a mainstream American position.

 

[B-Rich]

Two of the four freedoms were freedoms from (want and fear).

Those particular Freedoms are relatively recent, having originated with Franklin Roosevelt in a 1941 State of the Union speech, followed up by Rockwell's paintings.

The first instance of the use of "Four Freedoms" was just a couple of years earlier. in 1939 at the New York World's Fair, and were all freedoms "of": religion, speech, press and assembly. Sculptures representing these four freedoms were commissioned and placed in the heart of the fair.

Not surprising that Roosevelt dropped "of press" and "of assembly" for "from want" and "from fear", which tied in more to his own political philosophy and efforts, namely trying to ameliorate the effects of Great Depression and trying to keep us from being actively involved in a "European" war....

 

[Galbreath34]

They're completely an FDR thing as far as I think of them. Anyone else using it before or since is just making up a random same sized list. He didn't drop ones from the Fair, because that wasn't a source for the speech. Speech pretty much encompasses assembly and press, and always has come under that protection in the courts.

Honestly, to me religion comes under speech as well, but I understand why people break it off.

 

[Galbreath34]

French PM suggests naked breasts represent France better than a headscarf

I thought it was armpit hair.

 

[HobBeh]

French PM suggests naked breasts represent France better than a headscarf

I thought it was armpit hair.

It's hard to tell if that is armpit hair on Liberty or a shadow.