Another police shooting - this time in Wisconsin... (6 Viewers)

I'm of two minds about that. Were I the judge I'd probably have ruled the same, but I think it's closer to being relevant only because it directly relates to what happened. I think the same about Rosenbaum's history of violent and erratic behavior. If I told someone I think women deserve to die, and I'm on trial for killing a woman, is my state of mind toward women relevant?

If something goes directly to the state of mind I think you need to take a very careful look at it, but I understand that opens a can of worms.
You're right that the issues are more nuanced - I just gave my bottom line analysis based on the rules of evidence (roughly paraphrased):

Rule 402: Relevant evidence (i.e., probative of a matter at issue) is admissible;
Rule 403: Even relevant evidence can be excluded if the danger of unfair prejudice outweighs the probative value of the evidence;
Rule 404: Character evidence is not admissible except under certain circumstances in criminal cases; evidence of other crimes or wrongs are not admissible to prove the defendant did the same on this occasion, BUT can be admissible for other purposes, such as to prove intent, motive, state of mind, etc.

So synthesizing the rules and applying them to the evidence, I don't see how the video of KR the few nights before shows specific state of mind the night of the incident. To me, it's evidence of a teenage kid talking **** to his friend, not evidence of specific intent. Hell, if I saw certain politicians in public, I might muse aloud about wishing I had my AR. Point is, it's not a comment that deserves to be taken seriously without much more. And any probative value without more is outweighed by Rule 403 considerations.

With respect to Rosenbaum's past, a history of violent or volatile behavior could be relevant to whether he was the aggressor in this instance. A history of sexually abusing boys, though? I don't see how that's relevant at all to whether KR thought he was a serious threat of bodily harm or death at the time this occurred.
 
Yep - Self-defense operates as a privilege to kill (homicide in all of its forms) or injure (battery in its forms). Sometimes it’s called “justified homicide” or “justified battery”. So it would apply to any charge directly related to the act(s) performed in self-defense.
Listen, super, we're good friends or I'd like to think we've gotten along a lot better, and my upcoming response to above-written post also applies to others here on SR but if someone tries to break into my house at 3 A.M. in the morning high on crack/cocaine, or trying to rob me or hold my family hostage ala home invasion to keep "feeding" his habit, if I can get my gun, the punk(s) is/are dead because I will shoot him to defend myself and my family and secular humanism can go lecture its BS elsewhere because my family comes first, not self-righteous, liberal principles or well-meaning rhetorical prose.
 
Last edited:
We seriously disagree here. This case is all about vigilantism and the extent to which one can go to "protect someone else's property" in a volatile environment, find themselves in a potentially volatile situation and are free and clear to blast their way out of it....killing 2 people and injuring a 3rd....

If you don't think this opens the door to more vigilantism in future in the great state of WI (and perhaps elsewhere) then we have nothing to talk further about....it's the why he was there in the first place....
He was there because his father and other relatives lived in Kenosha, WI and he saw what was a mostly peaceful George Floyd BLM anti police brutality protest suddenly go apeshirt crazy and Rittenhouse thought or wrongly perceived PDs in cities like Minneapolis, Louisville, Inglewood, NYC were being too nice, too recalcitrant, too unwilling to confront violent protesters who began looting, destroying businesses, attacking innocent people, yelling obscenities at anyone and everyone who didnt "agree" with them. He felt perhaps the local PD werent doing or trying hard enough to protect local businesses, people's homes, livelihoods, from out-of-control jerks looking to cause trouble.

Until they found someone a lot worse and more deranged then they ever could be who stupidly and idiotically went there to "teach some ANTIFA far-left MFers a lesson if they tried pushing him". Some BLM protesters made the worst mistake of their lives, pushing someone a little bit too far over the ledge and tried to attack him, and he shot them both dead, as a result.

Trouble inevitably attracted even worse, more deadlier trouble and what occurred was a very, avoidable terrible tragedy where three men got shot and two of them were killed and one of the deceased's previous indiscretions after-the-fact doesn't make him a very sympathetic figure other then no human being, even convicted pedophiles, deserve a fate like that. Character assassination is certainly a primary factor in dragging one of the deceased dubious past through the slime.

Unfortunately, Kyle Rittenhouse wasn't on trial in Kenosha for making an impulsive, reactive decision probably looking to go somewhere where he'd find trouble, and when it found him, a terrible, very avoidable catastrophe occurred where three men got shot and two of them killed, due to very unhinged incel-ish hot-headed trouble maker looking for a advantage in a nasty, mean confrontation.
 
Last edited:
Listen, super, we're good friends or I'd like to think we've gotten along a lot better, and my upcoming response to above-written post also applies to others here on SR but if someone tries to break into my house at 3 A.M. in the morning high on crack/cocaine, or trying to rob me or hold my family hostage ala home invasion to keep "feeding" his habit, if I can get my gun, the mother forker is dead because I will shoot him to defend myself and my family and secular humanism can go lecture its BS elsewhere because my family comes first, not self-righteous, liberal principles or well-meaning rhetorical prose.

I’m not sure what you think I wrote meant - I don’t think it meant what you seem to think it meant, but I can say that I think in most places shooting a home invader is protected.
 
I’m not sure what you think I wrote meant - I don’t think it meant what you seem to think it meant, but I can say that I think in most places shooting a home invader is protected.
Thats great, I just wanted to make sure we understood where both of us stood and this can be very complex, difficult oft-quarrelsome set of issues and I didnt want to have any misunderstandings.

Like I said, we've been on good terms for a long time now and I really like you as a poster and your opinions, perspectives on socio-political issues, even sometimes when I may disagree.

We're all good here and in pretty much every other case.
 
Thats great, I just wanted to make sure we understood where both of us stood and this can be very complex, difficult oft-quarrelsome set of issues and I didnt want to have any misunderstandings.

Like I said, we've been on good terms for a long time now and I really like you as a poster and your opinions, perspectives on socio-political issues, even sometimes when I may disagree.

We're all good here and in pretty much every other case.

Yep, we’re good - just to be clear I was only explaining how existing law works, not giving a stance or personal endorsement of it.

But all good, I understand your perspective.
 
But none of his actions in Kenosha, as far as I'm aware, provoked anything up to the point the shooting started.
I’m fairly certain KR pointed his weapon at another person(s) based on video evidence and an interview with someone before the trial (not sure if that person testified at the trial as I have heard nothing about it re: the trial).

Again not sure if it was in the trial but people who were with Rosenbaum said that was why Rosenbaum got so agitated with KR in the first place.
 
C. Put a young black teen in KR’s place and tell me the verdict is the same



Here you go Mr Overly Emotionally Involved. Self Defense is self defense no matter what color your skin.



now if we can get the poor girl OUT that's in jail for killing her sex trafficker out of KR case than, woot.
 



Here you go Mr Overly Emotionally Involved. Self Defense is self defense no matter what color your skin.



now if we can get the poor girl OUT that's in jail for killing her sex trafficker out of KR case than, woot.

Not taking a side either way, but those 2 cases are very different than the KR case. I don't think that proves a young black teen could have armed himself, gone to the Charlottesville Unite the Right rally, and when he got attacked shoot some folks.

Once again, I'm not taking sides. I'm honestly of two minds about it. Just saying those cases are not apples to apples. In fact, I don't think there is an apples-to-apples comparison out there.
 



Here you go Mr Overly Emotionally Involved. Self Defense is self defense no matter what color your skin.



now if we can get the poor girl OUT that's in jail for killing her sex trafficker out of KR case than, woot.
I’m overly emotional because false equivalencies make me very very sad
Thanks for making me cry this morning

But just in case you really don’t get it, imagine a young black male arming himself with a AK type weapon (you could really just stop here if you wanted) and provoking confrontation at a Charlottesville type rally
 
Not taking a side either way, but those 2 cases are very different than the KR case. I don't think that proves a young black teen could have armed himself, gone to the Charlottesville Unite the Right rally, and when he got attacked shoot some folks.

Once again, I'm not taking sides. I'm honestly of two minds about it. Just saying those cases are not apples to apples. In fact, I don't think there is an apples-to-apples comparison out there.
Probably not ever will we have apples to apples, but if the black teen is there and the entire night is practically on video and it shows what they showed in this Case, then yea he would get off on self defense.
 
Probably not ever will we have apples to apples, but if the black teen is there and the entire night is practically on video and it shows what they showed in this Case, then yea he would get off on self defense.

Especially when shooting at Cops anywhere is self defense.

Sadly, a black teen showing up with an AR during a "protest" probably would have been shot by Police for showing up with a gun instead of just being told to go home so he could ignore it.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Users who are viewing this thread

    Back
    Top Bottom