Another police shooting - this time in Wisconsin... (2 Viewers)

Grandadmiral

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Still waiting to hear more details, but watching this cop shot this guy in the back 7 times at close range is just wrong. Stories are saying he was trying to stop a fight and his kids were in the vehicle as he was shot. This is just wrong how this happened, like a forking execution. Hopefully bodycam video will be available to get a better story of what happened. Be warned the video is disturbing.


 

boutrous

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I'd be interested in the discussion as well. I'm actually pondering getting a CCW license and learning more about the issues related to both open and concealed carry. Fwiw, I feel like I'm not seeing any real benefit to OC.
The basis of the 2nd Amendment protection is to be able to form a militia in order to protect the country from invaders, internal or external. If the government says you can't have guns, it's easier for them or someone else to come in and to oppress you. If you do form a militia, the government can arrest you for roaming the streets with an assault rifle without open carry laws. Do I wish any of that wasn't true? Yes, I'm not a fan of guns and of people acting like arses with guns. I personally think that if you are posting pictures "posing" with guns, then you aren't keeping them for the right reasons and your rights should be revoked. They are not play toys to be used to show off or for amusement. Hand guns and assault rifles are design for only one purpose, to kill people and they should be treated and respected as such. Also, if you are using guns to inact tyranny (threatening people, committing crimes) instead of protecting from tyranny, then your rights should be revoked. I am 100% in favor of peoples' rights, but I also believe that we are not strict enough when people earn their way out of rights. We should have a process for earning those rights back, of course. We do something like this with driver's licenses.
 

James Spader

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How about a sidebar discussion as to not derail the thread. I've been interested in having a look at some sensible gun laws, one's that should not affect one's ability to protect themselves, their property & family.
That would be awesome, lover to learn other people's perspectives....thank you for doing that...private one or on the EE thread?
 

James Spader

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The basis of the 2nd Amendment protection is to be able to form a militia in order to protect the country from invaders, internal or external. If the government says you can't have guns, it's easier for them or someone else to come in and to oppress you. If you do form a militia, the government can arrest you for roaming the streets with an assault rifle without open carry laws. Do I wish any of that wasn't true? Yes, I'm not a fan of guns and of people acting like arses with guns. I personally think that if you are posting pictures "posing" with guns, then you aren't keeping them for the right reasons and your rights should be revoked. They are not play toys to be used to show off or for amusement. Hand guns and assault rifles are design for only one purpose, to kill people and they should be treated and respected as such. Also, if you are using guns to inact tyranny (threatening people, committing crimes) instead of protecting from tyranny, then your rights should be revoked. I am 100% in favor of peoples' rights, but I also believe that we are not strict enough when people earn their way out of rights. We should have a process for earning those rights back, of course. We do something like this with driver's licenses.
There is nothing assault like about a semi-auto, but lets bring that to the new thread for further discussion. Lastly, they are not only designed to kill people, I would strongly disagree on that point but I will keep my mind open....see you on new thread.
 

LAhotsauce

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This is a week old but apparently an Arkansas sheriff, Todd Wright, was caught on audio berating his girlfriend for talking to an African American in a store right in front of him. Very similar to Donald Sterling. Except it's Arkansas so he went full on with his N words throughout the conversation.

Oddly enough I can't seem to find clean audio without somebody adding commentary. This is the best I could do (NSFW).


But I repeat, this man was a SHERIFF (he's resigned). But that's not systematic racism. Even though apparently his department had no African American deputies. The real issue is "blacks" need more 2 parent households, then the Todd Wright's of the world would disappear...so I've learned.

Here is a video of this same sheriff discussing police accountability at some sort of gathering before the audio came out. Talk about a wolf in sheep's clothing. He must be a democrat. :fou:

 
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Taurus

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The FBI ha warned for years that white supremacists have identified and groomed their recruits to infiltrate police departments.

Unfortunately nobody has ever done anything about it. But those chickens are coming home to roost.
That's something which has struck me during this whole thing. The total defiance of their own authority structures.
Mayors, police chiefs, congressmen, even senators have been telling the cops to cool their jets, but the pigs have just lit the afterburners instead.
 

Saintman2884

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I wouldn't take points away from the cause because some people choose to take advantage of the situation for their own reasons or because some may express their support for the cause in ways that aren't 100% legal. One could even argue that at some point, after no meaningful results from peaceful protesting, that the only way to get results is to start tearing sheet down.

It's easy to stand back and say protest peacefully when you're not the one being oppressed.
Your comment here fails because usually large portion of the shops, stores, local or small businesses are owned or operated or staffed by minorities, African-Americans, Latinos, or Asian-Americana. So, no bullshirt to that because probably some, in some inner-cities of these cities where rioters steal, loot, or smash windows are businesses or residences owned by people their supposedly protesting for to force police reform. If you're protesting peacefully, you dont harm or destroy minority-owned businesses or homes or stores which employ mostly minorities if you're upset and trying to make a forking point. To make some apologist argument insinuating collateral damage is somehow acceptable or understandable here "considering the situation or circumstances" is bullshirt, too.

That was the case of most of the race riots of late 1960s, especially in Detroit, Watts, Newark, Washington, D.C., Atlanta, most of the serious damages weren't occurring in Smithfield, Bethesda, Hollywood Hills, LA. Or even during the 1992 Rodney King riots, the stores, businesses, homes being ransacked, overrun were owned and operated by minorities. They had to forking clean up the gosh darned destruction and chaos, not people who run businesses or live in homes where it was easy and convenient to stand back and say protest peacefully or that they or their ancestors weren't historically oppressed.
 

Saintman2884

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Well....

MLK
Nelson Mandela
Muhammad Ali
Jesus Christ
Gandhi

were all obvious criminals in their time. Yesterdays Criminals are today’s martyrs and heros
Dont make a moral and ethical absolute out of this statement, and I'd be careful using this phrase too freely. What constitutes today's heroes and martyrs can be a subjective theme to different people. Many people admire Charles Chaplin today for his outspokenness on world peace, and fighting against McCarthyism, but tend to ignore he was a notorious misogynist, would play cruel sometimes sexually provocative pranks on women. I've read and heard some of the stories alleging sexual assault, coercion, even rape against female studio staffers, or actresses in some of his movies.

Plus, Groucho Marx called Chaplin a bit of a hypocrite expousing the virtues of Marxism while doing laps in his swimming laps, and Marx was a well-known liberal Democrat. If Chaplin were alive now, he'd be crucified by the #MeTooMovement as would perhaps many of actors, producers, directors, studio heads, and executives from Hollywood's Silent and Golden Eras.

I dont particularly think of Chaplin as a hero, considering the qualitative amount of things I've read or heard about him. A highly flawed, complex man, a cinematic genius. Sure. But I don't know if that makes him a complete hero. Perhaps a great man who had great ideals, a hopeless, naive idealist with very good intentions who failed or sometimes didnt even try to live up to those lofty standards is a better summation. The 1992 Chaplin film portrayed excellently by Robert Downey Jr makes him out to be some misunderstood, politically harassed cinematic acting and film genius and while true in some respects, the actual history is a lot more complicated and doesn't paint Chaplin in such a favorable light.
 
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Your comment here fails because usually large portion of the shops, stores, local or small businesses are owned or operated or staffed by minorities, African-Americans, Latinos, or Asian-Americana. So, no bullshirt to that because probably some, in some inner-cities of these cities where rioters steal, loot, or smash windows are businesses or residences owned by people their supposedly protesting for to force police reform. If you're protesting peacefully, you dont harm or destroy minority-owned businesses or homes or stores which employ mostly minorities if you're upset and trying to make a forking point. To make some apologist argument insinuating collateral damage is somehow acceptable or understandable here "considering the situation or circumstances" is bullshirt, too.

That was the case of most of the race riots of late 1960s, especially in Detroit, Watts, Newark, Washington, D.C., Atlanta, most of the serious damages weren't occurring in Smithfield, Bethesda, Hollywood Hills, LA. Or even during the 1992 Rodney King riots, the stores, businesses, homes being ransacked, overrun were owned and operated by minorities. They had to forking clean up the gosh darned destruction and chaos, not people who run businesses or live in homes where it was easy and convenient to stand back and say protest peacefully or that they or their ancestors weren't historically oppressed.
It's hard to give credence to what you say when you are wrong about the nature of the vandalism and looting that took place in Los Angeles.

First, the Hollywood Hills were not affected. The areas that were hit with heavy looting and vandalism were Downtown, West Hollywood, Beverly Hills, and Santa Monica. Van Nuys was hit to a lessor extent.

The majority of the vandalism was a precursor to looting orchestrated by organized crime groups, not the protestors.

The vast majority of the heavy hit targets were primarily high dollar stores owned by chains, not locally owned mom and pop stores, in upscale retail and residential areas.

If you're going to call "bullshirt" on someone else, it would be wise to make sure you're not shoveling some yourself.
 

Saintman2884

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Studio, most of the rioting involved in the race riots of the late 60s did involve mostly minorities burning down homes, businesses, shops, stores in their own neighborhoods in large inner-cities. That is not bullshirt, that is an un-contested fact cited in the same Kerner Commision set up to investigate the cause of the riots and provide suitable long-term solutions, which have been already discussed in this thread. That my friend, is the only thing I'm shoveling.

Detroit 1967, Washington DC, Newark, Watts in 1965, look at the areas predominantly effected and see which types of businesses were hit hardest by looting, and not just by organized crime groups and I was also calling him out for him seemingly implying he was somehow okay with some people tearing sheet up and looting if peaceful protests didnt work fast enough.

That doesnt sound a little harsh. How would most people like it if me and some group were to break into a small mom and pop store, or some regional grocery chain and steal store items we deemed "unnecessary" and to throw them all over all the chain's parking lot to as some anti-consumerism protest because people all over the world buy sheet every day they don't need.
Anti-consumerism is deemed by some to be a legit cause, particularly with some on the left. And what I'm and we're doing isn't 100% legal but hey if it brings well-needed attention to a cause, I'm sure a few people might applaud me for it and rest would call me a idiot, which is I would be.
 
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CoolBrees

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I’ll take false equivalencies for $500 Alex.....

Who in the world considers Charlie Chaplin a Martyr or philosophical hero?

your examples, are strange to say the least.

and thanks for pointing out a movie I didn’t see was historically inaccurate.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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It's hard to give credence to what you say when you are wrong about the nature of the vandalism and looting that took place in Los Angeles.

First, the Hollywood Hills were not affected. The areas that were hit with heavy looting and vandalism were Downtown, West Hollywood, Beverly Hills, and Santa Monica. Van Nuys was hit to a lessor extent.

The majority of the vandalism was a precursor to looting orchestrated by organized crime groups, not the protestors.

The vast majority of the heavy hit targets were primarily high dollar stores owned by chains, not locally owned mom and pop stores, in upscale retail and residential areas.

If you're going to call "bullshirt" on someone else, it would be wise to make sure you're not shoveling some yourself.
I don’t think anybody ‘what abouts’ better than you
I actually very much appreciateread what you offer, even though, more and more, the reasoning behind why you bring up Counterpoints seems deeply flawed
 

Saintman2884

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I’ll take false equivalencies for $500 Alex.....

Who in the world considers Charlie Chaplin a Martyr or philosophical hero?

your examples, are strange to say the least.

and thanks for pointing out a movie I didn’t see was historically inaccurate.
There are some people who consider him to be a hero at least for his outspoken views on world peace during rise of fascist dictatorships leading up to WWII. A Martyr because his Visa was denied entrance and he was essentially kicked out of the USA in 1952 due to his opposition to McCarthyism and lived pretty much rest of his life in Switzerland until very end with a brief AFI tribute in 1972 before his death. Philosophical hero? Nah, but he was a very flawed, cinematic film and directorial genius but a man who had high, lofty ideals but sometimes never reached them or even bothered too. If Chaplin were alive today in the midst of the #MeTooMovement, he would publicly and professionally crucified.

BTW, you probably should see Chaplin. It's actually a very good, well-acted movie and it got Robert Downey Jr. an Oscar nomination before his career nearly unwinded and he straightened himself out with Iron Man and the MCU films.

I'm just saying yesterday's criminals are today's heroes or martyrs is a more subjective, complex process and sometimes who you or me might consider a "hero" or a "martyrs" isn't always universally accepted later on by historians. Some people thought/still believe the Weather Underground or radical SDS fringe groups were heroes even though they committed violent, extreme acts of terrorism that killed people and destroyed property.

There's always going to be debates between who "you" or "me" constitutes who'll be revered as heroes later on because in some respects it's a subjective interpretation. You chose some easy, well-known examples, like Gandhi, MLK, or Christ, there are many more that aren't so easily definable.
 
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I don’t think anybody ‘what abouts’ better than you
I actually very much appreciateread what you offer, even though, more and more, the reasoning behind why you bring up Counterpoints seems deeply flawed
What compels you to let other people know you don't approve of their posts? You only chimed in to comment on what you mistakenly think was the purpose of my post. I've seen you do it frequently to others too. That was a rhetorical question. I won't be sticking around for whatever witty retort you concoct.

Hurricane Laura's out and so am I.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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What compels you to let other people know you don't approve of their posts? You only chimed in to comment on what you mistakenly think was the purpose of my post. I've seen you do it frequently to others too. That was a rhetorical question. I won't be sticking around for whatever witty retort you concoct.

Hurricane Laura's out and so am I.
Well I’ll retort anyway
I suppose I am frustrated with the inertia in contemporary politics and culture
And am kind of fed up with status quo warriors who must see what everyone Lee sees, but would rather play the game of a thousand cuts instead of putting their weight behind needed change (or just getting out of the way)

now, certainly I’ll make mistakes from time to time - and if shown the mistakes I will apologize

I’m not sure this is one of those times

apologies for the paleness of wit
I’ll strive to be wittier anon
 

Saintman2884

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Guido, I think most sane, rational people agree police reform is an absolute necessity as well as ending police shootings or brutality. I would like to believe its slowly sinking into the collective consciousness of most police departments(local, state, or federal) that they have a lot to lose if one or some of their officers are caught on police video car cams or individuals recording their fork ups on cell phones or social media outlets.

But massive, comprehensive police reform is a very wide, broad spectrum that needs intelligent, thoughtful voices and minds debating, arguing, and hopefully coming to some great results that's durable and it's really works.

That was my position on Obama's comprehensive health care package, I supported universal health care option but I wanted to make sure it was always going to be well-funded, durable, and it didn't turn out to be lackluster, badly-funded, gutted health care program like Britain's NHS. Once one of the very best social services/national health care programs but due to decades of very high income taxes and alot UK's richest and well-connected leaving as tax exiles to US, France, Germany or Canada, lack of funding and being gutted in 1980s by Thatcher's Conservative regime neutered it's effectiveness.
 

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