Another police shooting - this time in Wisconsin... (1 Viewer)

Grandadmiral

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Still waiting to hear more details, but watching this cop shot this guy in the back 7 times at close range is just wrong. Stories are saying he was trying to stop a fight and his kids were in the vehicle as he was shot. This is just wrong how this happened, like a forking execution. Hopefully bodycam video will be available to get a better story of what happened. Be warned the video is disturbing.


 

CoolBrees

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Since I made a claim and there are obviously those that don’t believe that the FBI has warned about white supremacy infiltration, I figured I would post the actual report....From 2006.


And a follow up from PBS 10 years later....

 

DaveXA

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Since I made a claim and there are obviously those that don’t believe that the FBI has warned about white supremacy infiltration, I figured I would post the actual report....From 2006.


And a follow up from PBS 10 years later....

I don't think anyone is doubting the FBI has warned about white supremacist infiltration of police departments. That's been discussed a bit here, and more in the PDB board. I think the bigger question is to what extent this is happening. I've always viewed white supermaict ideology as fringe, and if they are indeed fringe, then how many have actually infiltrated? It would seem to be the exception rather than the norm.

Now that's a different issue than the systemic and institutional racism that exists in many police departments throughout the country. That sort of racism i would think makes it a bit easier for white supermacists to join without too much scrutiny.

I'm somewhat thinking out loud though. I'm sure there's more to it.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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Guido, I think most sane, rational people agree police reform is an absolute necessity as well as ending police shootings or brutality. I would like to believe its slowly sinking into the collective consciousness of most police departments(local, state, or federal) that they have a lot to lose if one or some of their officers are caught on police video car cams or individuals recording their fork ups on cell phones or social media outlets.

But massive, comprehensive police reform is a very wide, broad spectrum that needs intelligent, thoughtful voices and minds debating, arguing, and hopefully coming to some great results that's durable and it's really works.

That was my position on Obama's comprehensive health care package, I supported universal health care option but I wanted to make sure it was always going to be well-funded, durable, and it didn't turn out to be lackluster, badly-funded, gutted health care program like Britain's NHS. Once one of the very best social services/national health care programs but due to decades of very high income taxes and alot UK's richest and well-connected leaving as tax exiles to US, France, Germany or Canada, lack of funding and being gutted in 1980s by Thatcher's Conservative regime neutered it's effectiveness.
We don’t need police reform now, we needed it 150 years ago
We’ve needed health reform for, what, 70 years?
It’s not the opposition that keeps us from it - opposition is usually rather small (but obviously well funded)
No
The reason we don’t have programs of social humanity is because of the people who demand the perfect instead of the overall good
The people who want to slow walk every single tiny inch - and then all of the righteous momentum is gone
 

guidomerkinsrules

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I don't think anyone is doubting the FBI has warned about white supremacist infiltration of police departments. That's been discussed a bit here, and more in the PDB board. I think the bigger question is to what extent this is happening. I've always viewed white supermaict ideology as fringe, and if they are indeed fringe, then how many have actually infiltrated? It would seem to be the exception rather than the norm.

Now that's a different issue than the systemic and institutional racism that exists in many police departments throughout the country. That sort of racism i would think makes it a bit easier for white supermacists to join without too much scrutiny.

I'm somewhat thinking out loud though. I'm sure there's more to it.
Put it this way, in November there will be at least 40% of the voting population for whom white supremacy or at the very least playing footsie with white supremacists is not a blocking concern
No body should take this lightly
 

DaveXA

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Put it this way, in November there will be at least 40% of the voting population for whom white supremacy or at the very least playing footsie with white supremacists is not a blocking concern
No body should take this lightly
I'd argue the number is smaller than that. The are lifelong Republicans who aren't white supermacists, and I'd take it a step further and say that 40% is closer to 20%. That other 20% are those that just can't get on board with a left leaning government regardless of the fringe who happen to tend to be on the right side of the political spectrum. I know we're getting into politics at this point, but I just don't think it's anywhere near 40%. It might seem like it, but I don't believe that's close to realistic.

That said, none of this is being taken lightly by me. It's an important issue and has to be addressed, yes.
 

Taurus

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I don't think anyone is doubting the FBI has warned about white supremacist infiltration of police departments. That's been discussed a bit here, and more in the PDB board. I think the bigger question is to what extent this is happening. I've always viewed white supermaict ideology as fringe, and if they are indeed fringe, then how many have actually infiltrated? It would seem to be the exception rather than the norm.

Now that's a different issue than the systemic and institutional racism that exists in many police departments throughout the country. That sort of racism i would think makes it a bit easier for white supermacists to join without too much scrutiny.

I'm somewhat thinking out loud though. I'm sure there's more to it.
If they concentrate into one profession, even a fringe group can make a meaningful difference.
 

DaveXA

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If they concentrate into one profession, even a fringe group can make a meaningful difference.
Definitely. Their impact is amplified in a profession like law enforcement. Which i think is part of why they're targeting police departments. That and the culture of law enforcement has long made it easy for them to blend in.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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I'd argue the number is smaller than that. The are lifelong Republicans who aren't white supermacists, and I'd take it a step further and say that 40% is closer to 20%. That other 20% are those that just can't get on board with a left leaning government regardless of the fringe who happen to tend to be on the right side of the political spectrum. I know we're getting into politics at this point, but I just don't think it's anywhere near 40%. It might seem like it, but I don't believe that's close to realistic.

That said, none of this is being taken lightly by me. It's an important issue and has to be addressed, yes.
“For whom it’s not a blocking concern”
“Who are you supporting?”
“______”
“You know that _______ is either a white supremacist or has thrown support behind white supremacy, right?”
“Yeah, but_____”

whatever follows the “but” is completely superfluous information
 

DaveXA

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“For whom it’s not a blocking concern”
“Who are you supporting?”
“______”
“You know that _______ is either a white supremacist or has thrown support behind white supremacy, right?”
“Yeah, but_____”

whatever follows the “but” is completely superfluous information
I don't disagree with that line of thought, but, that doesn't resonate with a lot of people. Whether it's enough to make a difference in November remains to be seen.

I'd say most people will argue that it isn't a but, but rather a declarative, "I've always voted as a conservative, and where we are isn't enough to compel me to vote otherwise." They don't care whether people think the reasons are superfluous or not. That's what i tend to think the response would be anyway.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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I don't disagree with that line of thought, but, that doesn't resonate with a lot of people. Whether it's enough to make a difference in November remains to be seen.

I'd say most people will argue that it isn't a but, but rather a declarative, "I've always voted as a conservative, and where we are isn't enough to compel me to vote otherwise." They don't care whether people think the reasons are superfluous or not. That's what i tend to think the response would be anyway.
Your point was that you thought it was a fringe ideology ((that fbi report and ones that follow will show you the troubling prevalence))
But my point is that of 40% The voting populace does not disavow white supremacy, that demonstrates that the ideology is not fringe


to paint with a slightly broader brush, if some people voted for nazis bc nazis made the train run on time, they’re still voting for nazis
Whether their math of trains> jews is implicit or explicit, it doesn’t matter; they have supported a nazi ideology
 

Charlie Brizzown

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I don't disagree with that line of thought, but, that doesn't resonate with a lot of people. Whether it's enough to make a difference in November remains to be seen.

I'd say most people will argue that it isn't a but, but rather a declarative, "I've always voted as a conservative, and where we are isn't enough to compel me to vote otherwise." They don't care whether people think the reasons are superfluous or not. That's what i tend to think the response would be anyway.
People always make excuses for why they accept the horrible things. I’m less concerned about whether it makes a difference for a specific event and more concerned with, even if it makes a difference, we’re still stuck with a large number of people living amongst us that are willing to brush off that ideology as acceptable, along with all the other horrible things that aren’t deal breakers.

I’m actually fascinated, in a morbid kind of way, to see how much some of these people are willing to accept.
 
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DaveXA

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Your point was that you thought it was a fringe ideology ((that fbi report and ones that follow will show you the troubling prevalence))
But my point is that of 40% The voting populace does not disavow white supremacy, that demonstrates that the ideology is not fringe


to paint with a slightly broader brush, if some people voted for nazis bc nazis made the train run on time, they’re still voting for nazis
Whether their math of trains> jews is implicit or explicit, it doesn’t matter; they have supported a nazi ideology
I guess the question is whether white supermacy as an ideology is representative of conservatism. And I'm saying that it's undoubtedly not. Are they influencing conservatives, probably, but conservatism isn't driven by that. I'd argie that the Republican party has lost their way and what passes for conservatism today isn't conservatism in a lot of ways. Which is part of why I'm no longer a Republican.

I'm saying you can be and remain a conservative while disavowing white supermacy. My vote isn't a referendum on that issue. Actually it would depend on what I'm voting on. Locally, statewide and nationally all have their own specific issues and my votes are typically all over the map. But that's just me.
 

Heathen Saint

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I live down the road from here. The guy had 2 arrest warrants. 1 in Racine for waving a gun in a bar, resisting arrest etc including a few bites from Rin Tin Tin. The warrant in Kenosha was for unlawful entry, felony domestic abuse and felony sexual assault. The video doesn't show where he was also tazed as they tried to get the guy under control.
It seems this is painting a 'he deserved it' picture. I think we can all see how that could be a slippery slope. A person who has a criminal record should have the same rights as someone with a squeaky clean one. At least in a more just country.

I'm not worried about what the family thinks of him or his past record in this moment. I'm worried about whether or not the police attempted to commit murder or if they kept a man from harming them justifiably. Was he (Jacob) reaching for a gun? Were the cops' lives in danger?

If not, the officer(s) should be thrown in jail for a long, long time. Attempted murder under the guise of a badge is something we should monitor very closely considering there is a long and dark history of it. It's as simple as that.

People are demanding justice, but I bet that woman's father and family believe he just got it.
Noted, but it's irrelevant to what is being discussed.
 

DaveXA

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People always make excuses for why they accept the horrible things. I’m less concerned about whether it makes a difference for a specific event and more concerned with, even if it makes a difference, we’re still stuck with a large number of people living amongst us that are willing to brush off that ideology as acceptable, along with all the other horrible things that aren’t deal breakers.

I’m actually fascinated, in a morbid kind of way, to see how much some of these people are willing to accept.
The thing is, I abhor white supermacy, but I'm still a conservative. Notice, I didn't say Republican. :hihi:
 

guidomerkinsrules

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I guess the question is whether white supermacy as an ideology is representative of conservatism. And I'm saying that it's undoubtedly not. Are they influencing conservatives, probably, but conservatism isn't driven by that. I'd argie that the Republican party has lost their way and what passes for conservatism today isn't conservatism in a lot of ways. Which is part of why I'm no longer a Republican.

I'm saying you can be and remain a conservative while disavowing white supermacy. My vote isn't a referendum on that issue. Actually it would depend on what I'm voting on. Locally, statewide and nationally all have their own specific issues and my votes are typically all over the map. But that's just me.
i missed the part about conservatism - i just picked up during the fbi/white supremacy thing

i'll have to go back and look at that bc i'm not sure what conservatism has to do with the conversation - the only conservatives in politics now are some right of center dems and the never trumpers who have left the R party
but in terms of anything with political heft or even vision, conservatism is not a player right now (i have many who have expressed reservations about getting in bed with the Project Lincoln people - the fear is they will buddy up with Dems now and then re-aim their guns AT dems starting in January)

but i have a bit of pushback with about your 'isn't a referendum' thing - sure it is
the single issue voting idea is both inaccurate and highly corrosive
we vote for the platform, bc that is what the person is trying to enact
and vote carries the responsibility of the elected party and not just the line-item that we agree with
 

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