Another police shooting - this time in Wisconsin... (14 Viewers)

[James Spader]

That was hard to watch but once you learn more info, it gives you pause. Some of my questions are that, why was he allowed to even walk to the vehicle in the first place and why was mace not deployed. As a side question, why is he walking to his vehicle with guns drawn him?

But in the end, the police had a man with known violent arrests reaching into his vehicle. That is a touchy spot for anybody to be in. Have mercy on us all.

 

[tomwaits]

What's worse are the stories saying his kids were in the car. Two big problems with that:

1. You're sitting there watching your dad getting shot multiple times.
2. What if there was a richocet or a child in the passenger seat?

Yeah, its a tough situation. They also can't let him drive off with violent felony warrants, and then find out he injured/killed the kids and they let it happen.
Again, the problem was letting him get to the driver door and start to get in.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

Its hard to see man I won't deny it. I dont know whats its like to be black, but damn just stop. If your rights were violated so be it, live to fight it in court. Again no clue what its like to be black so its easy for me to say "just stop."

I get where you're coming from in both of your posts, I really do. I'm still reserving judgment because this seems so egregious I have to believe there was something going on we don't know about yet. I'm in a wait and find out territory.

On the "just stop" thing, there are a lot of cases where people did and still ended up dead and those are the extreme cases that get news coverage. For every one of those, there are thousands of cases of brutality that don't get that kind of coverage. As young black men in the 80's we feared the police. As one of the ones in constant trouble I had some really tough interactions. We are all reflections of our environment and many of those people you see on video have been taught or witnessed disrespectful or violent actions of the bad apples and see them as adversaries instead of authority figures.

Most cops are the good guys. I'm talking the overwhelming majority. However, compliance means nothing to the bad apples and that's the issue with expecting it.

 

[No2DC]

It's draining watching these videos. I don't know if there was anything that could have been done to deescalate the situation but it seems like cops only practice kill shots.

 

[tomwaits]

It's draining watching these videos. I don't know if there was anything that could have been done to deescalate the situation but it seems like cops only practice kill shots.

I don't think they "practice kill shots" I think they are trained to shoot center mass, which I would agree with. They shoot to stop a person from doing whatever they are doing. Shooting center mass means you are more likely to hit the person and not others. Any LEOs can comment if this is correct.

 

[James Spader]

It's draining watching these videos. I don't know if there was anything that could have been done to deescalate the situation but it seems like cops only practice kill shots.

My man. I served in the Marines as an MP and there is only one type of shot, a shot to disable. Unless you have scoped rifle, you are taught center mass.

it could have been deescalated several ways, guy accepts his arrest or the cops handle him physically. Well, he had some violent arrests and he did not listen. That was not going to end well once he decided to enter the vehicle. The key part though is that he had warrant for his arrest.

 

[James Spader]

I don't think they "practice kill shots" I think they are trained to shoot center mass, which I would agree with. They shoot to stop a person from doing whatever they are doing. Shooting center mass means you are more likely to hit the person and not others. Any LEOs can comment if this is correct.

You are correct. I was one in the Marines.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

I don't think they "practice kill shots" I think they are trained to shoot center mass, which I would agree with. They shoot to stop a person from doing whatever they are doing. Shooting center mass means you are more likely to hit the person and not others. Any LEOs can comment if this is correct.

Yes, and I'll add one thing here. I know a number of cops. My uncle was a Deputy chief and head of the PIB after Katrina. I know cops who have killed people in the line of duty and it haunts them. I think we see these videos and assume it's callous but most of these guys don't take this lightly and it stays with them. I know one that refuses to touch a shotgun ever again because he had to kill a man with one. It was a clean shot and absolutely warranted but it traumatized him severely.

These guys aren't taking kill shots they are shooting center mass. In most cases, the hope is the man is disabled but lives. Unfortunately, it doesn't always go that way.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I live down the road from here. The guy had 2 arrest warrants. 1 in Racine for waving a gun in a bar, resisting arrest etc including a few bites from Rin Tin Tin. The warrant in Kenosha was for unlawful entry, felony domestic abuse and felony sexual assault. The video doesn't show where he was also tazed as they tried to get the guy under control. People are demanding justice, but I bet that woman's father and family believe he just got it.

as much as anyone, you know that police are not judge/jury
they are not asked nor empowered to dole out justice

 

[tomwaits]

as much as anyone, you know that police are not judge/jury
they are not asked nor empowered to dole out justice

Agree here. I don't care if a person has killed a cop every day for the last year, police are not judge/jury/executioners. Arrest them and the judicial system does its thing (poorly).

 

[James Spader]

Agree here. I don't care if a person has killed a cop every day for the last year, police are not judge/jury/executioners. Arrest them and the judicial system does its thing (poorly).

I agree with this message.

 

[No2DC]

My man. I served in the Marines as an MP and there is only one type of shot, a shot to disable. Unless you have scoped rifle, you are taught center mass.

it could have been deescalated several ways, guy accepts his arrest or the cops handle him physically. Well, he had some violent arrests and he did not listen. That was not going to end well once he decided to enter the vehicle. The key part though is that he had warrant for his arrest.

I can accept that. It just seems that people of color are often in a situation where de-escalation is unsuccessful. It may be perception or the increase in the number of cellphone videos but it's a bad look for everyone.

 

[No2DC]

Yes, and I'll add one thing here. I know a number of cops. My uncle was a Deputy chief and head of the PIB after Katrina. I know cops who have killed people in the line of duty and it haunts them. I think we see these videos and assume it's callous but most of these guys don't take this lightly and it stays with them. I know one that refuses to touch a shotgun ever again because he had to kill a man with one. It was a clean shot and absolutely warranted but it traumatized him severely.

These guys aren't taking kill shots they are shooting center mass. In most cases, the hope is the man is disabled but lives. Unfortunately, it doesn't always go that way.

I actually knew a state trooper that went on to get a MA in counseling because he was involved in a shooting and it left a lasting impact on him even though the person wasn't killed. He was a former MP and always wanted to be a cop but the shooting did change him.

 

[James Spader]

I can accept that. It just seems that people of color are often in a situation where de-escalation is unsuccessful. It may be perception or the increase in the number of cellphone videos but it's a bad look for everyone.

Don’t disagree. I bet most people would accept the arrest, it is just this guy didn’t. I can understand why he didn’t, he had a warrant. I feel so bad for the children that were in the vehicle to see this (thought I read this). Now, my question that I have now, Is did the cops know this when they went at him? I would think since guns were already drawn but confirmation is necessary.

 

[Zack Lee]

ok, so this was a domestic call. The article says that the victim was trying to break up an argument between women. I think that is an over simplification at the very least. He may have been the center of the argument. My first thought was that he may have been trying to take the kids against the mothers wishes. At any rate, domestic calls with high emotions are the worst. That is no excuse though. But I stand by what I said earlier, they made all their worst mistakes before he got to that drivers door. Just following with aimed gun, knowing full well that the situation will escalate the moment he opens that door. And this should not be left to their judgement. Either they were following procedure very poorly or procedure and training were not well in place.