Another Presidential Poll: McCain or Obama (1 Viewer)

[Saint by the Bay]

No option was available for undecided which any intelligent, non-partisan American would be at this point in the campaign. Clearly if the election was held today, I'd walk into the booth and do my mother and your mother or something. Since it's not today, I don't have an opinion.

TPS

I don't know. I think the candidates positions are well enough defined for someone to make an intelligent informed decision at this point. What don't we know about them at this point that might have a material effect on their positions?

In the end I think informed folks are leaning strongly one way but could still be swayed or feel strong enough about a single issue or two to be strongly leaning one way.

Of course you will have your hard core (R) or (D) folks that won't even through a seductive glance in the other direction.

 

[LSSpam]

Absolutely. If we get a guy like Andre Marrou again, I'm probably not going to vote for him. But if they resurrected Ed Clark ( :17: ), I'd vote for him in a heartbeat over anyone.

And then there's Unity 08 and the possibility of a strong independent run (Bloomberg for instance) which could sway me immediately to vote for the Jewish guy.

TPS

Seems odd. I would assume one would vote 3rd party to make a point, in which case the person running is irrelevant unless a consensus third party candidate develops (ala Perot, Nader, etc) that everyone casts their lot in with.

 

[LSSpam]

No option was available for undecided which any intelligent, non-partisan American would be at this point in the campaign.

Oh I missed this gem. Yeah that's pretty dumb. You have no clue where Obama and McCain are going to come down this election cycle? Really? I mean wow

 

[TPS]

>>Seems odd. I would assume one would vote 3rd party to make a point, in which case the person running is irrelevant unless a consensus third party candidate develops (ala Perot, Nader, etc) that everyone casts their lot in with.

No. That's a simplistic viewpoint. I consider my options and vote for the candidate that I want to vote for based on my reasons for the given election.

>>Oh I missed this gem. Yeah that's pretty dumb. You have no clue where Obama and McCain are going to come down this election cycle? Really? I mean wow

It would be dumb if that's what I said. But I didn't say it. And anything I do say automatically is disqualified as being 'dumb' because that is an impossibility. I said, "No option was available for undecided which any intelligent, non-partisan American would be at this point in the campaign." The keys there in are the qualifications of one being an intelligent, non-partisan American. I don't recall qualifying political stances or positions.

TPS

 

[Saint Mike]

No option was available for undecided which any intelligent, non-partisan American would be at this point in the campaign.

TPS

It would not have made any sense to include an option for "undecided" since the premise of the poll is "if the election were held today." If the election were held today and a person is still undecided, they can choose to vote or not vote.

 

[LSSpam]

It would be dumb if that's what I said. But I didn't say it. And anything I do say automatically is disqualified as being dumb. I said, "No option was available for undecided which any intelligent, non-partisan American would be at this point in the campaign." The keys there in are the qualifications of one being an intelligent, non-partisan American. I don't recall qualifying political stances or positions.

TPS

Why would all intelligent and non-partisan American's be "undecided" right now by necessity?

 

[TPS]

>>It would not have made any sense to include an option for "undecided" since the premise of the poll is "if the election were held today."

Which is something I also addressed with, "Clearly if the election was held today, I'd walk into the booth and do my mother and your mother or something. Since it's not today, I don't have an opinion."

I'm not married to ideology or political parties. I haven't made up my mind. It's okay that others have assuming they don't meet said qualifiers.

TPS

 

[TPS]

>>Why would all intelligent and non-partisan American's be "undecided" right now by necessity?

Because the election doesn't happen unless and until there are candidates running for it. One might be in favor of a certain candidate at this point, but McCain is the only 99%+ sure thing today. If someone already is decided, they probably aren't both intelligent and nonpartisan. There could be exceptions for those voting for other reasons (because he's black, because he's not black) but I don't find those particularly intellectual reasons notwithstanding that wasn't the point I was originally making.

TPS

 

[Thorin]

Because the election doesn't happen unless and until there are candidates running for it. One might be in favor of a certain candidate at this point, but McCain is the only 99%+ sure thing today. If someone already is decided, they probably aren't both intelligent and nonpartisan. There could be exceptions for those voting for other reasons (because he's black, because he's not black) but I don't find those particularly intellectual reasons notwithstanding that wasn't the point I was originally making.

TPS

But we already know their stances on issues, that doesn't hold any value?

 

[LSSpam]

>>Why would all intelligent and non-partisan American's be "undecided" right now by necessity?

Because the election doesn't happen unless and until there are candidates running for it. One might be in favor of a certain candidate at this point, but McCain is the only 99%+ sure thing at this point. If someone already is decided, they probably aren't both intelligent and nonpartisan. There could be exceptions for those voting for other reasons (because he's black, because he's not black) but I don't find those particularly intellectual reasons notwithstanding that wasn't the point I was originally making.

TPS

Oh, well I fall back on my earlier implied statement "that's pretty dumb"

The poll is hypothetical. I have a pretty good idea where the battle lines will be drawn and how these two will contrast themselves. It doesn't take a rocket scientist I'm open to changing my mind should things fall differently but in the interest of intelligent discussion now, we can operate under our assumptions.

 

[TPS]

>>But we already know their stances on issues, that doesn't hold any value?

If those stances are what you are likely to vote on.

>>Oh, well I fall back on my earlier implied statement "that's pretty dumb"

Maybe to you it is because you fail to see the distinction. If one is a partisan or ideological voter, one most likely has his or her mind already made up. It's not that hard to figure out when x = nonpartisan and intelligent.

>>The poll is hypothetical. I have a pretty good idea where the battle lines will be drawn and how these two will contrast themselves. It doesn't take a rocket scientist I'm open to changing my mind should things fall differently but in the interest of intelligent discussion now, we can operate under our assumptions.

Sure you can if those assumptions are important to you. I'm going to wait and see who is actually running, how the campaigns are run and how the messages are tailored in the run back to the center/fight for the independents. If you asked me hypothetically if I would vote, today, for McCain over Hillary, I would say yes. If you asked me if I would,today, hypothetically vote for Obama over Hillary, I would say yes. If you asked me if I would, today, hypothetically vote for Obama over McCain, I can't answer that question because I don't know. You can call it dumb all you want. I see it as discriminating and giving myself ample time to make up my own mind based on whatever I want to. You liking it, disagreeing with it or thinking it's a dumb approach is not part of what will ultimately make up my mind.

TPS

 

[Saint by the Bay]

If a person is even semi informed they have a pretty good idea of who these guys are and what they stand for, partisanship withstanding. I would argue that it would be difficult for an intelligent informed person to not at least have a strong idea who he's voting for at this point in the context of the poll. He may have decided neither of these candidates are for him and he'll look at a third party that he hasn't decided on yet but there is an option for that.

I'm still curious what drastic change might happen between Obama and McCain to have a drastic effect on the decision? Their positions have been out there for the world to see for a year. Their websites and mailings both contain a ton of specifics. They have both done a bunch of debates against others from their party stating their positions and clarifying their policies.

It would be very easy for an intelligent non partisan person to draw a conclusion at this point.

 

[TPS]

>>It would be very easy for an intelligent non partisan person to draw a conclusion at this point.

So that explains why you are totally decided, correct?

>>I would argue that it would be difficult for an intelligent informed person to not at least have a strong idea who he's voting for at this point in the context of the poll.

It's not difficult at all. To the contrary, I happen to really like both McCain and Obama and have reasons to vote for either of them outside of issues or the parties they represent. The fight for the center, which is where I like politics to be even if I'm a bit to its left, is going to help me make up my mind which (if either) of these candidates I will be voting for. For instance, I hate the national GOP and always appreciated McCain for standing up to idiots. I also thought the phone-call lies Bush/Rove perpetrated against him in South Carolina in 2000 were politics at their worst. I don't agree with some of McCain's positions, but I find him to be a likable leader and a departure from Clinton or Bush politics. I donated to McCain in 2000 prior to him getting played by Bush/Rove and had McCain bumper stickers on my car. Obama offers an intriguing alternative. First of all, he is a black man. And while I have voted for black men and women in the past, I have not had the opportunity to vote for one for President. And let's don't forget, while he is the front-runner for the Democratic Party, he is not the presumptive nominee that McCain is yet. I don't agree with some of Obama's positions either. I like his social stances, but I don't agree with some of the potential big-government stuff. I do appreciate the fact that he's looking to govern from a working majority of Democrats, Independents and crossover Republicans to tone down the b.s. and start looking for answers to major problems the country faces. And I think in some ways McCain would too (see Gang of 14 or whatever they called them). But none of that is enough for me at this point.

TPS

 

[Shawn]

Running mates will affect my decision more this year than in the past. Regardless of the what job the Vice President actually has, it will say a lot about the candidates.

In the case of John McCain, it's not impossible that the VP candidate could be President during his term. That's a big deal to me.

 

[SaintsBrazil]

For me, if these are the choices, I'll be able to vote for someone and not against someone. That's nice. I can see good things coming out of both possibilities. If it were Huckabee vs Clinton... I don't know what I'd do... Nadar?