Are Loomis/Payton as good as their draft reputation? (1 Viewer)

[mony_b22]

And thats my thing

This isn't quite fair. Sed Ellis and Malcolm Jenkins were projected studs. How can you blame a gm or coach for moving up for guys that nearly every scout and analyst speak highly of? Also, a majority of the others had injury concerns. I get that there are some busts on there but for the most part our drafts seem to have far more value than other teams when it's all said and done.

Porter was a solid guy, Ellis and Jenkins have had their highs and lows but far from bust imo just not what we projected. Still not even included the undrafted ones(jo-lunn dunbar,PT crusier) as well. Some guys we were hoping to do more but we got what we got out of them ala usama young, marvin mitchell,and meachem. I'm not sure whats the measurements for this thread but I see a few more names on that list that wasn't just warm bodies wearing a uni. Far from spectacular but not doom and gloom either.

 

[King Mello]

Atlanta Falcons draft 2007-2012

It like this for every team. hits and misses

Pretty much.. If any team would have figured out the exact science of the draft then that team would've won more the just one superbowl over the last few seasons (post-spygate).. We aren't the best but find me a team that's that much better

 

[duhonmark551]

Bum Phillips never had much of a reputation for being a draft guru ... but he hit on one good draft in 1981 that ended up being the core of the Dome Patrol.

Maybe some of these guys we have drafted end up being good players with long careers.

Maybe we hit a home run with this years draft.

Payton and Loomis have had bad luck on the defensive side but none of their first rounders were 'reaches' ...so everybody else in the football world was wrong too.

 

[greg985]

I'm still bummed about Matt Tennat. I thought for sure he has going to be another late round steal a la Nicks, Evans.

 

[mony_b22]

IMO

I'm still bummed about Matt Tennat. I thought for sure he has going to be another late round steal a la Nicks, Evans.

Our current center De puenta(bad spelling) has been more than serviceable. I'm very pleased with the production we are getting back for the price.

 

[birdog]

Yes, they knocked it out of the park in 2006, no doubt.

But since then have they really drafted all that well? Other than Nicks and Graham, and to a lesser extent Ingram and Jordan, it doesn't look so good.

I'm not including 2012 since its way too early to judge. But even so we've already cut 1 of our 5 picks and two others eneded up on IR and one (White) is trashed pretty regularly.


2011 1 1 24 24 Cameron Jordan DE California
2011 2 1 28 28 Mark Ingram RB Alabama
2011 3 3 8 72 Martez Wilson LB Illinois
2011 4 3 24 88 Johnny Patrick DB Louisville
2011 5 7 23 226 Greg Romeus DE Pittsburgh
2011 6 7 40 243 Nate Bussey LB Illinois
2010 1 1 32 32 Patrick Robinson DB Florida State
2010 2 2 32 64 Charles Brown T USC
2010 3 3 31 95 Jimmy Graham TE Miami (FL)
2010 4 4 25 123 Al Woods DT Louisiana State
2010 5 5 27 158 Matt Tennant C Boston College
2010 6 7 32 239 Sean Canfield QB Oregon State
2009 1 1 14 14 Malcolm Jenkins DB Ohio State
2009 2 4 16 116 Chip Vaughn DB Wake Forest
2009 3 4 18 118 Stanley Arnoux LB Wake Forest
2009 4 5 28 164 Thomas Morstead P Southern Methodist
2008 1 1 7 7 Sedrick Ellis DT USC
2008 2 2 9 40 Tracy Porter DB Indiana
2008 3 5 9 144 DeMario Pressley DT North Carolina State
2008 4 5 29 164 Carl Nicks T Nebraska
2008 5 6 12 178 Taylor Mehlhaff K Wisconsin
2008 6 7 30 237 Adrian Arrington WR Michigan
2007 1 1 27 27 Robert Meachem WR Tennessee
2007 2 3 2 66 Usama Young DB Kent State
2007 3 3 25 88 Andy Alleman G Akron
2007 4 4 8 107 Antonio Pittman RB Ohio State
2007 5 4 26 125 Jermon Bushrod T Towson
2007 6 5 8 145 David Jones DB Wingate
2007 7 7 10 220 Marvin Mitchell LB Tennessee

Doesn't look so hot to me. I wonder how it compares to other top teams.

I honestly believe that some of the fans here on this forum would do a better job drafting players, than our FO...

The players who did pan out are the exception....and not the rule. That's pretty sad....

 

[greg985]

Our current center De puenta(bad spelling) has been more than serviceable. I'm very pleased with the production we are getting back for the price.

I agree, he's been a stud. We would have been in serious trouble when Olin K retired had it not been for Brian. But Tennant carried a really high draft grade and I thought we could develop into a future pro bowler.

 

[reason2believe]

I think some of you are scrutinizing too much. Yeah, go ahead and compare to other teams and I don't think you will see it so badly. There are alot of guys on the list that have been solid contributors, and that is all you can ask for out of some of them. You don't get to draft in the first round every round. What are you expecting?

And you can't fault the team for IR players. Or players that left via free agency.

You seem to be under-valuing a few:
M Jenkins
S Ellis
T Porter
R Meachem

 

[SuperRemo]

Our current center De puenta(bad spelling) has been more than serviceable. I'm very pleased with the production we are getting back for the price.

Are you kidding me, DLP is the top free agent center this year. He will be pro bowl caliber soon and is top 10 right now....
We are getting a huge bargain with him for at least 1 more year....

This ability to groom OL makes me not too worried about our OL for the future. We will find a better RT than Strief with M. Jones, C.Brown or even B.Harris looked fine.

The trouble will be LT but we probably will suck it up and pay Bushrod...
Its the only position where you can't scheme around since htey face the best DL esp in the NFC. Thank god our division has horrible DEs.

 

[SuperRemo]

I think some of you are scrutinizing too much. Yeah, go ahead and compare to other teams and I don't think you will see it so badly. There are alot of guys on the list that have been solid contributors, and that is all you can ask for out of some of them. You don't get to draft in the first round every round. What are you expecting?

And you can't fault the team for IR players. Or players that left via free agency.

You seem to be under-valuing a few:
M Jenkins
S Ellis
T Porter
R Meachem

All of those players played themselves out of town and didn't make it past their rookie deal and Jenkins is on the same path...

 

[reason2believe]

All of those players played themselves out of town and didn't make it past their rookie deal and Jenkins is on the same path...

What makes them bad? Are we supposed to draft 10-year keepers with every pick? I think all of those guys have made significant contributions to the team, not to mention to winning a Super Bowl. I am not following this argument.

I think it is unfair to say someone like Porter played himself out of town. Really? This is about free agency, and trying to manage your cap. I think we could be doing pretty well with Porter out there right now. It was about the money. We can't pay everyone.

 

[CantonLegend]

Yes, they knocked it out of the park in 2006, no doubt.

But since then have they really drafted all that well? Other than Nicks and Graham, and to a lesser extent Ingram and Jordan, it doesn't look so good.

I'm not including 2012 since its way too early to judge. But even so we've already cut 1 of our 5 picks and two others eneded up on IR and one (White) is trashed pretty regularly.


2011 1 1 24 24 Cameron Jordan DE California
2011 2 1 28 28 Mark Ingram RB Alabama
2011 3 3 8 72 Martez Wilson LB Illinois
2011 4 3 24 88 Johnny Patrick DB Louisville
2011 5 7 23 226 Greg Romeus DE Pittsburgh
2011 6 7 40 243 Nate Bussey LB Illinois
2010 1 1 32 32 Patrick Robinson DB Florida State
2010 2 2 32 64 Charles Brown T USC
2010 3 3 31 95 Jimmy Graham TE Miami (FL)
2010 4 4 25 123 Al Woods DT Louisiana State
2010 5 5 27 158 Matt Tennant C Boston College
2010 6 7 32 239 Sean Canfield QB Oregon State
2009 1 1 14 14 Malcolm Jenkins DB Ohio State
2009 2 4 16 116 Chip Vaughn DB Wake Forest
2009 3 4 18 118 Stanley Arnoux LB Wake Forest
2009 4 5 28 164 Thomas Morstead P Southern Methodist
2008 1 1 7 7 Sedrick Ellis DT USC
2008 2 2 9 40 Tracy Porter DB Indiana
2008 3 5 9 144 DeMario Pressley DT North Carolina State
2008 4 5 29 164 Carl Nicks T Nebraska
2008 5 6 12 178 Taylor Mehlhaff K Wisconsin
2008 6 7 30 237 Adrian Arrington WR Michigan
2007 1 1 27 27 Robert Meachem WR Tennessee
2007 2 3 2 66 Usama Young DB Kent State
2007 3 3 25 88 Andy Alleman G Akron
2007 4 4 8 107 Antonio Pittman RB Ohio State
2007 5 4 26 125 Jermon Bushrod T Towson
2007 6 5 8 145 David Jones DB Wingate
2007 7 7 10 220 Marvin Mitchell LB Tennessee

Doesn't look so hot to me. I wonder how it compares to other top teams.

I still don't understand why people say we don't draft well

You didn't bold many players...is that because you think a guy has to be a pro bowler to be a good pick? How about starting for 6 straight seasons...how about the pro bowl snubs? How about the special teams captains or the guys that start for other teams

What constitutes a good pick? IMO a good pick is a guy who contributes consistently over the course of several years

Marvin Mitchell was a captain....Malcolm Jenkins is a captain...Harper too


1 of those guys is responsible for one of the top 3 moments in saints history when he sealed the Super Bowl

They definitely deserve the credit and recognition for drafting well

 

[SuperRemo]

Its not that they expect all pro bowlers but take a look at that list again.
You have guys who are not only not all pro but they didn't sniff the field, they were horrific.

Jones, Melhoff, Pittman, Alleman, Arrington, Pressley, Arnoux, Vaughn, Canfield, Tennant, Woods, Bussey, Romeues, Patrick.

These aren't even NFL caliber players. That should be cause for job loss or demotion. That is horrific. Its not a matter of fittig into our system, these guys aren't qualified for any position on any team, and hardly even got looks elsewhere. That means we were so wrong in the evaluation that teams didn't even care to take a look on a prospect in their mid 20s who have been through a few NFL training camps. We need to get better a scouting. It as if we get so enamored with our early success at bizarre reach out of the box small school prospects that we make a cult science out of it and force the issue. Or we just have poor metrics for talent evaluation. That miss rate is on the NFL bottom barrel, even the Raiders do better by simply taking fast guys. Its a testament to our offensive coaching and system that we win so much despite the talent deficit....

 

[reason2believe]

Its not that they expect all pro bowlers but take a look at that list again.
You have guys who are not only not all pro but they didn't sniff the field, they were horrific.

Jones, Melhoff, Pittman, Alleman, Arrington, Pressley, Arnoux, Vaughn, Canfield, Tennant, Woods, Bussey, Romeues, Patrick.

These aren't even NFL caliber players. That should be cause for job loss or demotion. That is horrific. Its not a matter of fittig into our system, these guys aren't qualified for any position on any team, and hardly even got looks elsewhere. That means we were so wrong in the evaluation that teams didn't even care to take a look on a prospect in their mid 20s who have been through a few NFL training camps. We need to get better a scouting. It as if we get so enamored with our early success at bizarre reach out of the box small school prospects that we make a cult science out of it and force the issue. Or we just have poor metrics for talent evaluation. That miss rate is on the NFL bottom barrel, even the Raiders do better by simply taking fast guys. Its a testament to our offensive coaching and system that we win so much despite the talent deficit....

Where are the facts?

Raiders? Really? And they have done what in the last 10 years?

Where are the facts and numbers to back this up?

 

[Gore]

I think fans have unrealistic expectations here and that‘s why they criticize the scouting department. The average career of an NFL player is about 3.3 years. If you consider that the average career length for a first-round draft pick is 9.3 years you realize how short the careers of the other players are. If I remember correctly – but it would be nice if somebody could confirm that – about 50 percent of all players that get drafted are out of the league within two years.