Are you willing to get the Covid vaccine when offered? (3 Viewers)

[where yat brah]

Viral load is a big one. Vaccinated individuals will generally have a much lower viral load(meaning less virus replication in their bodies).

Which is why mask wearing is so beneficial.
It significantly reduces viral load of wearer and when all are masked, viral loads are dramatically reduced

But, we all already knew that.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

That can't be true, because i saw a meme on Facebook that showed a fart going through a pair of jeans proving why masks don't work...

 

[bigdaddysaints]

If only there could have been something that could have helped him prevent infection...

Anti-vaccine televangelist Marcus Lamb dies of COVID-19​

SMH

he said that they attempted numerous "protocols," including unproven ones that the organization has touted on their broadcasts, but that they did not work. His heart eventually gave out, she added.

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[porculator]

I don't think you understand how the vaccine works very well. It's not immunity. It's not a bubble that forms around a person and blocks any and all transmission of the virus particles.

It is a defense mechanism whereby the body can quickly recognize and mobilize to limit the virus impact into a host. Many times this will result in lesser symptoms and shorter to no infectious times. Not always tho depending on lots of different circumstances.

The reason we think that it confers immunity or destroys the virus is that when enough people are inoculated then the virus doesn't have much of a path for infecting or mutation to over come the vaccines and therefore can become mostly extinct. When anti-vax campaigns subvert the vaccines, it allows more paths for the virus to attack and modify itself for efficacy.

The parts bolded above are where I think we need to be publishing more data, assuming it's available. Understood there will obviously be variables.

Would like to see something like this:
-Vaccinated people are XX% less likely than unvaccinated to pass on the virus after exposure
-Vaccinated people are contagious for XX% less time on average than unvaccinated after exposure
-Vaccinated people carry XX% less viral load on average than unvaccinated people after exposure

Like, why is this so hard?

I hope I'm not coming across as an anti-vaxxer though it may appear that way (any digging into my past posts will show that I'm absolutely not.) I just respond better to hard data than broad platitudes and emotional pleas, and I know I'm not alone in that sentiment. I have enough trust in our medical experts and our civil institutions in general that I will follow CTC guidance etc. But many do not, and they're the ones that need to be smacked with hard facts and data, not cute slogans. I'd like to be the one doing some of the smacking, so if anything I'm using you all to help me dig up the ammo

 

[sfidc3]

I don't think you understand how the vaccine works very well. It's not immunity. It's not a bubble that forms around a person and blocks any and all transmission of the virus particles.

It is a defense mechanism whereby the body can quickly recognize and mobilize to limit the virus impact into a host. Many times this will result in lesser symptoms and shorter to no infectious times. Not always tho depending on lots of different circumstances.

The reason we think that it confers immunity or destroys the virus is that when enough people are inoculated then the virus doesn't have much of a path for infecting or mutation to over come the vaccines and therefore can become mostly extinct. When anti-vax campaigns subvert the vaccines, it allows more paths for the virus to attack and modify itself for efficacy.

There are a whole lot of anti-vaxxers that really don't seem to understand that the vaccine is not a "cure".....not saying the P you are responding to is one of them....

 

[Tapxe]

The parts bolded above are where I think we need to be publishing more data, assuming it's available. Understood there will obviously be variables.

Would like to see something like this:
-Vaccinated people are XX% less likely than unvaccinated to pass on the virus after exposure
-Vaccinated people are contagious for XX% less time on average than unvaccinated after exposure
-Vaccinated people carry XX% less viral load on average than unvaccinated people after exposure

Like, why is this so hard?

I hope I'm not coming across as an anti-vaxxer though it may appear that way (any digging into my past posts will show that I'm absolutely not.) I just respond better to hard data than broad platitudes and emotional pleas, and I know I'm not alone in that sentiment. I have enough trust in our medical experts and our civil institutions in general that I will follow CTC guidance etc. But many do not, and they're the ones that need to be smacked with hard facts and data, not cute slogans. I'd like to be the one doing some of the smacking, so if anything I'm using you all to help me dig up the ammo

I guess for me, those numbers are unnecessary given all the variables. Exact percentages will never be possible due to factors such as viral load exposure and individual immune response. What's critical to me is the percentages around vaccinated vs unvaccinated and hospitalization or death. I think that's pretty plain to see as last I looked >90% of bad outcomes were in the unvaccinated group.

I don't see you as anti-vax, but maybe a little bogged down in the details. Those numbers may not exist at this point due to the lack of available data resulting from varied reporting to a still evolving virus which isn't totally understood.

I do trust that the vaccine reduces bad outcomes significantly enough to be worthwhile despite the unavailable intricate details.

 

[porculator]

There are a whole lot of anti-vaxxers that really don't seem to understand that the vaccine is not a "cure".....not saying the P you are responding to is one of them....

Yea I'm absolutely not. But as I alluded to in my previous post, I've taken it upon myself to convince some relatives who I really think could be convinced with better information.

It's the whole Joe Rogan mindset. The "it's nobody's business but mine and if I get Covid that's my problem" folks. There's a sheetload of them. Basically 75% of men aged 20-30. I feel like if there were more definitive data that "yes you are much more likely to kill your vaccinated-but-immunocompromised parents than I am" we might get more traction with them.

 

[saintmdterps]

The parts bolded above are where I think we need to be publishing more data, assuming it's available. Understood there will obviously be variables.

Would like to see something like this:
-Vaccinated people are XX% less likely than unvaccinated to pass on the virus after exposure
-Vaccinated people are contagious for XX% less time on average than unvaccinated after exposure
-Vaccinated people carry XX% less viral load on average than unvaccinated people after exposure

Like, why is this so hard?

I hope I'm not coming across as an anti-vaxxer though it may appear that way (any digging into my past posts will show that I'm absolutely not.) I just respond better to hard data than broad platitudes and emotional pleas, and I know I'm not alone in that sentiment. I have enough trust in our medical experts and our civil institutions in general that I will follow CTC guidance etc. But many do not, and they're the ones that need to be smacked with hard facts and data, not cute slogans. I'd like to be the one doing some of the smacking, so if anything I'm using you all to help me dig up the ammo

Not sure it will work as ammo for you, but one of the nurses here at work is a very pro-vaxxer. Her parents were not. Valarie presented them with all the hard facts and studies showing the efficacy of the vaccine. All to no avail against their “liberal plot” mindset. 3 weeks ago both parents contracted Covid and her dad almost died. He is now telling all who will listen that Covid is no joke and they should get the vaccine.

Some just won’t get it until they get it.

 

[GW93]

COVID: First signs that vaccine protects against Omicron – health minister

Out of Israel, where they predominantly use Pfizer's vaccine.

 

[FullMonte]

The parts bolded above are where I think we need to be publishing more data, assuming it's available. Understood there will obviously be variables.

Would like to see something like this:
-Vaccinated people are XX% less likely than unvaccinated to pass on the virus after exposure
-Vaccinated people are contagious for XX% less time on average than unvaccinated after exposure
-Vaccinated people carry XX% less viral load on average than unvaccinated people after exposure

Like, why is this so hard?

I hope I'm not coming across as an anti-vaxxer though it may appear that way (any digging into my past posts will show that I'm absolutely not.) I just respond better to hard data than broad platitudes and emotional pleas, and I know I'm not alone in that sentiment. I have enough trust in our medical experts and our civil institutions in general that I will follow CTC guidance etc. But many do not, and they're the ones that need to be smacked with hard facts and data, not cute slogans. I'd like to be the one doing some of the smacking, so if anything I'm using you all to help me dig up the ammo

While I agree that data would be amazing...But, to answer your question "why is this so hard?" The reason it's so hard is that there is almost zero chance of determining who a person contracted it from, or who they passed it on to.

So, you can test Person A, and find out that he is infected with COVID-19. But, to determine how long he is contagious for (and develop useful data) you would need to know exactly when he contracted it, and then when he is no longer contagious. Those are two things that we can't define precisely.

As for your question about viral load, there was a study in the UK. As far as I know, it's the only totally random study of size done (as opposed to compiling data on individuals who presented themselves for testing). They randomly tested 100,000 or so people in the country(ies). What they found is that:
--Vaccinated people test positive half (49%) as often as unvaccinated people (when they reported a recent contact with a COVID-19 positive person)
--Vaccinated people tested postive 1/3 as often as unvaccinated people overall.
--Vaccinated people have a lower viral load than unvaccinated people.

REACT-1 study: COVID-19 infection rates three times lower for double vaccinated people

The latest REACT-1 study findings from Imperial College London and Ipsos MORI show COVID-19 infection rates are three times lower for double vaccinated people.

www.news-medical.net

 

[bonnjer]

COVID: First signs that vaccine protects against Omicron – health minister

Out of Israel, where they predominantly use Pfizer's vaccine.

That is most excellent news. Now, let's keep that type of news / results flowing.

 

[Saint_Ward]

While I agree that data would be amazing...But, to answer your question "why is this so hard?" The reason it's so hard is that there is almost zero chance of determining who a person contracted it from, or who they passed it on to.

So, you can test Person A, and find out that he is infected with COVID-19. But, to determine how long he is contagious for (and develop useful data) you would need to know exactly when he contracted it, and then when he is no longer contagious. Those are two things that we can't define precisely.

As for your question about viral load, there was a study in the UK. As far as I know, it's the only totally random study of size done (as opposed to compiling data on individuals who presented themselves for testing). They randomly tested 100,000 or so people in the country(ies). What they found is that:
--Vaccinated people test positive half (49%) as often as unvaccinated people (when they reported a recent contact with a COVID-19 positive person)
--Vaccinated people tested postive 1/3 as often as unvaccinated people overall.
--Vaccinated people have a lower viral load than unvaccinated people.

REACT-1 study: COVID-19 infection rates three times lower for double vaccinated people

The latest REACT-1 study findings from Imperial College London and Ipsos MORI show COVID-19 infection rates are three times lower for double vaccinated people.

www.news-medical.net

Furthermore, I'd imagine that ethically, we can't run a real controlled test. You can't put 1 infected, coughing person in a room with 100 other people. 50 vaccinated, 50 not. And see who does and doesn't catch it and/or die.

It would be manslaughter or reckless endangerment or something.....

So, the aggregate numbers are going to always suffer from behavior. Do vaccinated people take more or less precautions than unvaccinated? It depends, but I bet on the average many vaccinated still are keeping relative distance from others and still using a mask, depending on the situation.

 

[LonghornSaint]

Furthermore, I'd imagine that ethically, we can't run a real controlled test. You can't put 1 infected, coughing person in a room with 100 other people. 50 vaccinated, 50 not. And see who does and doesn't catch it and/or die.

It would be manslaughter or reckless endangerment or something.....

So, the aggregate numbers are going to always suffer from behavior. Do vaccinated people take more or less precautions than unvaccinated? It depends, but I bet on the average many vaccinated still are keeping relative distance from others and still using a mask, depending on the situation.

Totally agree, there is no ethical way to efficiently determine this, that I know of. Using a species that contracts and spreads the virus in a similar manner would be the way to go. Maybe non-human primates, but that gets super expensive super fast, especially at the numbers required.

And just because person A and person B both came down with covid at some point doesn't mean their future immune responses will be equal. There just isn't an efficient way to test this. The antibody test only sees a threshold of detection (either you have the antibodies or you don't), it doesn't measure their entire immune complement response to determine a future prognosis.

 

[Sailorsaint]

Dad and I got our Moderna booster this afternoon, so excuse me if I start to randomly typ in binary.

 

[gboudx]

Dad and I got our Moderna booster this afternoon, so excuse me if I start to randomly typ in binary.

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