Areas of competition on defense (1 Viewer)

TCUDan

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If there is something to look forward to this offseason, it's the competition that we're going to see on defense.

Safety:

IAQ, Jenkins, Harper (if he isn't released). I would throw Corey White in there because I don't think his future is at CB. R. Bush is another guy, but I don't think he'll push for a starter's role. A draft pick or free agent is sure to come as well. I think IAQ has a very good chance to emerge as a starter at either SS or FS. He showed a lot last year not only as a starter, but the past 2 seasons in subpackages. I think he's ready to step up and take on a larger role in the defense.

CB:

P. Robinson, Greer, Mack, Jenkins... and you can surely throw in a FA pick up or a draft pick. I do not see Corey White as having a chance. I think Jenkins needs to be in the mix. He is a much more talented version of Corey White w/ some proven cover skills and may be a better fit here than safety. And most of all, I feel like Patrick Robinson played his way out of a job last year. I love his talent and his ball skills, but he is too lazy in his technique and inconsistent. Maybe he turns it around in Ryan's scheme, but I just don't see the attention to detail for him to be a reliable every-down CB.

ILB: Lofton, Hawthorne, Vilma: I think you have 3 capable starters there, and I include Vilma b/c I think he'll restructure, and he is too valuable as leader of this defense to casually let him go. Hawthorne and Lofton are built for the 3-4... downhill, run-stuffers. Vilma is physically more of a nickel option, but if he can regain his 2009 form he will be hard to keep off the field. He may not be suited for a 3-4, but he played it plenty under GW and I think he is quietly becoming the forgotten man.

OLB: Galette, Wilson, Casillas + draft pick/FA: I think Galette could play that WOLB spot where he's rushing a good 75% of the time. You put Wilson at the SAM because he has more experience in coverage. That said, I am ready to anoint Galette as a starter. Wilson... not so much. I think he has the potential to dominate and will benefit from this move regardless, but he has to show the consistency and physicality to be an every down player vs. the run, especially if he's playing the strong side. Casillas is a darkhorse. He is an effective blitzer off the edge but really lacks some size to take on offensive tackles. You can bet this will be a position emphasized in the offseason.

DL: Probably where we're most set. Jordan and Hicks at DE with Bunkley at the nose. Tom Johnson is a good rotational player at DE. We need some depth here, but I like the look of our front 3 at this point.


This is more of a broad-stroke look at it and I'm sure everyone will have their own opinions. But regardless, I'm looking forward to the competition--particularly in the secondary. I think there's going to be some position shuffling and 2 or 3 FA/draft moves that will play a significant role in shaping the lineup.

I don't expect any huge signings because we still have to get under the cap... but finding an underrated "Jabari Greer"-type player would be exactly what this team needs.
 
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TCUDan

TCUDan

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I forgot to include Chris Chamberlain... he'll also be int he mix at ILB, though likely as a backup/situational player.
 

Pdlc

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What about the guy who had a good pre season at cb but was hurt? Think he was from st louis?
 

ELLIASJWILLIAMS

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Thats all of the areas i see as needs as well.

Id like a playmaker @ Safety and since those don't normally make it to the FA market and they are normally expensive when they do id like to see us dedicate a draft pick to the position.

Harper was a former 2nd rounder. If he is cut and there is good value in the 1st round i think we should use that pick to replace him.

ILB and OLB should be looked@ later in the draft depending on FA signings which i think is where we should look for pass rushers like victor butler. That way we don't have to worry about an early swing and miss in the 1st round.

Corner.. is the next glaring need and like Safeties they don't normally hit the market so i think thru the draft is the best option.
Greer is on his last leg/Robinson needs competition because he is inconsistent, and Corey White is well Corey White so yeah i see that as a need as well. Especially@ boundary corner.


I like drafting Matt Elam @ safety because of the Abe Elam/Rob ryan connection

I also like Leon McFadden as a day 2 corner.


**for the record id like to see us actually draft someone thats been playing safety and not draft a corner that seems like a good fit@ Safety because they have good ball skills but are slow.



Good analysis.
 

CitySaint

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If IAQ wins the starting job you would have Jenkins as the 4th corner? White possibly is more talented than Jenkins physically, he is about Jenkins size but alot faster. If Jenkins loses his starting job at safety he is on the bubble. I'm totally perplexed as to what to do with Hicks. Bunk will get completely washed out at nose with significant play time, and a garbage back up nose would be as bad as having Bunk out there with no gas left in the tank.
 
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TCUDan

TCUDan

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Corey White could fight for #2 corner. He also played safety in college.
If IAQ wins the starting job you would have Jenkins as the 4th corner? White possibly is more talented than Jenkins physically, he is about Jenkins size but alot faster. If Jenkins loses his starting job he is on the bubble. I'm totally perplexed as to what to do with Hicks. Bunk will get completely washed out at nose with significant play time, and a garbage back up nose would be as bad as having Bunk out there with no gas left in the tank.
I don't know where you're getting this about White being more physically talented than Jenkins. Without looking, I would venture that their 40 times are similar with Jenkins' being better... and then I can tell you from watching them on the field that Jenkins closing/recovery speed is lightyears ahead of White's. White is sluggish and stiff... much more so than Jenkins. Don't let a bad season in Spagnuolo's system fool you with Jenkins. He is still one of the most intelligent/athletic football players on the defense.

He wouldn't be a 4th CB. If Jenkins is a 4th CB, which would mean we are suddenly really set at CB, then he would be back at safety, where he would be in competition to be starter. Jenkins had 2 good seasons at safety before Spags became the DC. There was talk of him being a top 10 safety in the league. Don't undersell the guy while overselling a player in Corey White who showed nothing this season other than he was in way over his head on defense.

Jenkins could compete with Robinson right now to be a starting CB. That's where I see him. I also think he's still the #1 free safety if we go back to a "Buddy Ryan" type system where we're playing a lot of man-free.

Hicks would be an ideal 5-tech and could move to the nose on passing downs.
 
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TCUDan

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Also I think IAQ is more suited as a SS. He can play both, but I think he has a SS skill set and could really thrive moving in and out of the box and being used in a role similar to Harper.
 

Kurgan

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I seriously hope we don't retain vilma. He plays bad enough in a 4-3 these days, in a 3-4 he'd be just done. I don't care a bit about veteran leaderhip, locker room leadership, we had plenty last year and it didn't help us to avoid become the worst defense ever. Time to cut people imo
 

CantonLegend

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I don't know where you're getting this about White being more physically talented than Jenkins. Without looking, I would venture that their 40 times are similar with Jenkins' being better... and then I can tell you from watching them on the field that Jenkins closing/recovery speed is lightyears ahead of White's. White is sluggish and stiff... much more so than Jenkins. Don't let a bad season in Spagnuolo's system fool you with Jenkins. He is still one of the most intelligent/athletic football players on the defense.

He wouldn't be a 4th CB. If Jenkins is a 4th CB, which would mean we are suddenly really set at CB, then he would be back at safety, where he would be in competition to be starter. Jenkins had 2 good seasons at safety before Spags became the DC. There was talk of him being a top 10 safety in the league. Don't undersell the guy while overselling a player in Corey White who showed nothing this season other than he was in way over his head on defense.

Jenkins could compete with Robinson right now to be a starting CB. That's where I see him. I also think he's still the #1 free safety if we go back to a "Buddy Ryan" type system where we're playing a lot of man-free.

Hicks would be an ideal 5-tech and could move to the nose on passing downs.
I agree with all of this...I really don't see the competition at safety like everyone else does...assuming they are both brought back, Harper and Jenkins will start...I guarantee it

I also see hicks as an end despite his size...if will smith is brought back, I don't think hicks will start and although he's big and strong, I just can't see him maintaining a full time nose tackle position

Hicks may be the most interesting of all our backups this past season

He's pretty athletic and should play DE but that really depends on where we need him to play
 
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TCUDan

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He also helped us win a Super Bowl.

I wouldn't cut anyone based on last season when we had the worst defense in the league. Salary--that's an issue. But cutting him just to cut him... I don't think that's wise. That's when your castoffs go somewhere else and make the pro bowl.
 

CantonLegend

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I seriously hope we don't retain vilma. He plays bad enough in a 4-3 these days, in a 3-4 he'd be just done. I don't care a bit about veteran leaderhip, locker room leadership, we had plenty last year and it didn't help us to avoid become the worst defense ever. Time to cut people imo
Vilma has played well in the jets 3-4 system and in GWs system.

Whether his responsibility would be to take on blockers as an ILB or make tackles, I think he's fully capable of doing both. He will start alongside Lofton assuming he's brought back
 

guillermo

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I like Corey White and I think it is too early to judge him. He is a later draft choice doing the best he could on a very tough situation. I think he needs a lot to learn but he can contribute in the future.

I am very dissapointed in Patrick Robinso and I am thinking he is close to finish his chapter with the saints if he doesn't show radical improvement next year. Greer may be also a year or so of leaving.

I am very interested to see what Ryan plans to do with our secondary. I think Jenkins, Mack and White going to compete for the nickle and dime but I am not sure who will be handling the outside.

Will he rely on man or zone?

I really think that right now our biggest need is a center fielder that will help us to avoid the big play. A sure tackler and with good intincts, with the intelligence and leadership to put the other members of the secondary in the right place. The closest we have right now is Quddus, but I don't know if he is the guy to handle the job.

As I see it, we may have 2 or 3 new starters in the secondary in the next couple of years.
 

ELLIASJWILLIAMS

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Vilma has played well in the jets 3-4 system and in GWs system.

Whether his responsibility would be to take on blockers as an ILB or make tackles, I think he's fully capable of doing both. He will start alongside Lofton assuming he's brought back

Yeah people need to know Jonathan Vilma wasn't traded from the Jets because he couldn't perform in the 3-4. He did pretty solid..but he just wasn't a good fit..especially in the base defense. As a nickel LB in the 3-4 he still has some value.

So with that being said i see vilma staying and casillas being allowed to walk. Vilma will backup Hawthorne and see the field in nickel situations. Thats my opinon.
 
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TCUDan

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I like Corey White and I think it is too early to judge him. He is a later draft choice doing the best he could on a very tough situation. I think he needs a lot to learn but he can contribute in the future.

I am very dissapointed in Patrick Robinso and I am thinking he is close to finish his chapter with the saints if he doesn't show radical improvement next year. Greer may be also a year or so of leaving.

I am very interested to see what Ryan plans to do with our secondary. I think Jenkins, Mack and White going to compete for the nickle and dime but I am not sure who will be handling the outside.

Will he rely on man or zone?

I really think that right now our biggest need is a center fielder that will help us to avoid the big play. A sure tackler and with good intincts, with the intelligence and leadership to put the other members of the secondary in the right place. The closest we have right now is Quddus, but I don't know if he is the guy to handle the job.

As I see it, we may have 2 or 3 new starters in the secondary in the next couple of years.
I think you make some good points. My problem is this: Why does Corey White's complete inability to make a positive contribution get a pass, but Jenkins' bad season doesn't? Jenkins biggest problem was he missed way too many tackles this season, a problem that he didn't really have under GW where he was filling from centerfield. Perhaps it was adjusting to the different angles playing from the shell Spags likes to use. But he still made a ton of effort plays, particularly in the Bucs game where he chased down Vincent Jackson and then was key in the goal line stand.

I get it--those plays are forgotten when a player underperforms. And I'm not saying they shouldn't be. But Corey White--in the snaps he received--was atrocious. Not only did he not make plays, but he gave them up by the handful. When he was on the field, he was hands down our worst defender on a very bad defense.

Now is that his fault? No. He was a late round pick from a tiny school who was pressed into a new position in an extremely complicated defense. He was set up to fail. But I don't get the argument of him having more upside than Jenkins, who has actually had some very good seasons. Is it the draft pick/pay thing? We give a pass to low draft picks who aren't paid much money but crucify anyone who happened to be drafted early (not saying you specifically guillermo, but with a post or 2 that preceded yours).

I think White has a future--hope he does. I think that future is at safety. But I don't get how people are ready to give up on Jenkins--who again, had 2 good seasons previous to Spags becoming the DC--and are big fans of Corey White.

Heck, just compare their rookie years, where Jenkins was at CB and contributed much more than White did. He experienced growing pains too, but I'm sure if someone goes back and compares them statistically, we'll see exactly how much better a CB Jenkins was as a rookie than White was.
 

ELLIASJWILLIAMS

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I think you make some good points. My problem is this: Why does Corey White's complete inability to make a positive contribution get a pass, but Jenkins' bad season doesn't? Jenkins biggest problem was he missed way too many tackles this season, a problem that he didn't really have under GW where he was filling from centerfield. Perhaps it was adjusting to the different angles playing from the shell Spags likes to use. But he still made a ton of effort plays, particularly in the Bucs game where he chased down Vincent Jackson and then was key in the goal line stand.

I get it--those plays are forgotten when a player underperforms. And I'm not saying they shouldn't be. But Corey White--in the snaps he received--was atrocious. Not only did he not make plays, but he gave them up by the handful. When he was on the field, he was hands down our worst defender on a very bad defense.

Now is that his fault? No. He was a late round pick from a tiny school who was pressed into a new position in an extremely complicated defense. He was set up to fail. But I don't get the argument of him having more upside than Jenkins, who has actually had some very good seasons. Is it the draft pick/pay thing? We give a pass to low draft picks who aren't paid much money but crucify anyone who happened to be drafted early (not saying you specifically guillermo, but with a post or 2 that preceded yours).

I think White has a future--hope he does. I think that future is at safety. But I don't get how people are ready to give up on Jenkins--who again, had 2 good seasons previous to Spags becoming the DC--and are big fans of Corey White.

Heck, just compare their rookie years, where Jenkins was at CB and contributed much more than White did. He experienced growing pains too, but I'm sure if someone goes back and compares them statistically, we'll see exactly how much better a CB Jenkins was as a rookie than White was.

Mainly just because people saw that Interception that Corey White made the game b4 he got hurt and they attribute that to him coming on.

From my POV he was in good coverage on a 1 route. No agility required..nothing just turn and run with the receiver and locate the ball. Which he did.

However, i cant ignore what i saw the other games with him on the outside. He doesn't change directions well and he gives up a lot of cushion and he doesn't have good closing speed. He is however very physical and came up in run support with some solid shots.
 

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