Areas of competition on defense (1 Viewer)

[sheltonwhodat]

Pat rob will start at DB he was our number 1 DB he's ahead of Greer. Don't believe me google it are just watch the film of who checked the other teams number 1 WR.

 

[fr3sh]

I watched some of the Cowboys game to get an idea of RR's defense. In some of his pressure schemes I saw Sensabaugh come down and play press on the inside receiver while there was still a FS playing center field. I think we see Jenkins and Quddus doing the same thing.

Payton and Ryan are going to have fun in practice. They both have creative minds. Anybody can blitz or drop into coverage on any play, which is something Brees has trouble with. We saw it against the Browns a few years ago and the 49ers this past season. A guy that has been rushing the whole game might randomly drop into coverage and sneak into a passing lane. Pick 6!

I'm excited to see what Galette and Wilson can do. We know they can be disruptive at times. The 3-4 defense should give us an indication if these guys are actually worth a darn. Lofton and Hawthorne should be pretty good at ILB. We saw that Lofton is good at diagnosing run plays and shooting gaps. We should see him continue to do that while Hawthorne cleans up everything behind him ala Ellerbe and Lewis in the playoffs. Hawthorne can light some people up and make it scary for receivers to go across the middle.

We saw the Seahawks use their big corners on the perimeter of their defense. (Using the sideline as an extra defender.) It's simple physics, taller corners are harder to complete passes against. White and Jenkins could be really good cover-3 corners. I think that's what the Seahawks use the most. Sherman, Browner, and Earl Thomas (3) being the primary cover guys while Chancellor does the dirty work in the middle. In our case, that guy would be Roman Harper. We have some versatile players in our secondary and I look forward to seeing RR move them around.

Hopefully Quddus continues to develop and becomes that center fielder we've been missing since Sharper. This allows us to move Jenkins around. A player like him shouldn't be in one position the whole game. He would benefit from playing in multiple positions. (Charles Woodson comes to mind when talking about that kind of role.)

 

[Saint_Ward]

Pat rob will start at DB he was our number 1 DB he's ahead of Greer. Don't believe me google it are just watch the film of who checked the other teams number 1 WR.

I'm not a PRobb hater, but part of that was due to Greer being injured.

 

[Tee08]

"

If there is something to look forward to this offseason, it's the competition that we're going to see on defense.

Safety:

... I would throw Corey White in there because I don't think his future is at CB.

CB:

... I do not see Corey White as having a chance. I think Jenkins needs to be in the mix. He is a much more talented version of Corey White w/ some proven cover skills and may be a better fit here than safety."

TCUDan, I think you may have this one wrong. Based on what I saw last year of Corey White, he's much better in coverage than MJ. Corey White, though still somewhat raw, definitely has some ball skills, as opposed to MJ who has been a bust at best. Corey White will be a really good corner. He's got the "IT" factor.

 

[RiverRat]

Plus he is a serious hitter. But he can play either safety position.

Totally right about that big hitter part. That hit in 2011 vs the giants. I was sitting in the 600s, on the other side if the field, and i could hear that hit. The whole section came unglued. Especially when the flag got thrown.

 

[Domeination]

I thought IAQ looked terrible in the Panthers game, when Jenkins was out. I just don't think we have much at either safety position, and we will need to bring in a safety in FA. I think we will probably draft someone in the defensive front 7 in round 1. The bottom line is we have too many needs to make this defense work the way Payton and Ryan will want it to work in 1 year. I see the transition taking two years. The question is whether Payton and Ryan can improve the D enough to get back in contention, assuming the offense returns to 2011 form.

 

[TCUDan]

Totally right about that big hitter part. That hit in 2011 vs the giants. I was sitting in the 600s, on the other side if the field, and i could hear that hit. The whole section came unglued. Especially when the flag got thrown.

You should watch some of his college footage... i don't know if he has a highlight on youtube, but if he does, i'm sure you'll see that the guy has a great since of timing when delivering the big hit.

 

[TCUDan]

"

If there is something to look forward to this offseason, it's the competition that we're going to see on defense.

Safety:

... I would throw Corey White in there because I don't think his future is at CB.

CB:

... I do not see Corey White as having a chance. I think Jenkins needs to be in the mix. He is a much more talented version of Corey White w/ some proven cover skills and may be a better fit here than safety."

TCUDan, I think you may have this one wrong. Based on what I saw last year of Corey White, he's much better in coverage than MJ. Corey White, though still somewhat raw, definitely has some ball skills, as opposed to MJ who has been a bust at best. Corey White will be a really good corner. He's got the "IT" factor.

Who had the "IT" factor? Based on what? 1 INT? Because that as probably the only positive play he made. It's like everyone remembers him making an INT and forgets that the had the highest completion percentage and YPC allowed of any CB in the NFL!

I saw no "it" factor. I saw a player who was in WAY over his head.

And MJ is a bust? Really? Why? B/c he was a 1st round pick? He had 2 very good seasons before Spags came along. I do not understand where all this comes from.

Seriously, I wish I understood because there seems to be quite a few people buying into the "corey white is great/MJ is a bust" argument... but it defies logic to me. NOTHING that I have seen from either of them on the field suggests that White is a better player than Jenkins.

If you want to argue Jenkins isn't good enough, fine. I disagree because he had 2 very good seasons prior 2 2012, but hey, there's an argument there.

There is literally no argument for Corey White being a better player than MJ...at safety or at CB.

 

[RiverRat]

I don't think MJ is a bust, but I do think Corey White has tons of potential.

 

[sheltonwhodat]

I'm not a PRobb hater, but part of that was due to Greer being injured.

Nope when Greer was hurt rob was still the number one he followed the best WR around the games,

 

[whosyadaddy]

Seems like a lot of observations and predictions about IAQ, White and Bush are a direct result of just how bad we were last year. We hit an all time low and many wanted a change, so anytime a backup or "up and comer" made a play they were more than ready to jump on their bandwagon and write Harper and Jenkins off

Quite simply, do not put much stock into what you witnessed last year when looking at starting positions for this coming year. Everyone took their turn on Spags D looking lost at times, everyone including White, IAQ, Bush, Harper, Jenkins, Greer and P Rob (yes the whole secondary). Payton himself said the talent wasn't being used properly, that should tell you right there they aren't going to put much value in last year's game tape when the scheme was more to blame than anything else.

To suggest Jenkins is a "bust" and White is ready to be a starting corner are huge exaggerations to say the least and just examples of how much people want change after last year. Ryan is intelligent enough to know Jenkins' and Harper's strengths and weaknesses and will play them more to their strengths than Spags you can bet on that. He is going to be watching GW's tape as well as Spags, seeing what worked and didn't work and adding his own sprinkles.

What the FO does with contracts such as Harpers is anyone's guess to be honest. I am guessing a restructure, but if both Harper and Jenkins are on our 2013 roster then both will be starting for us over the backups mentioned earlier. Now if a Vaccaro is drafted of course that changes things, but I do not see White, IAQ or Bush taking any full time safety/CB roles just yet.

 

[TCUDan]

Seems like a lot of observations and predictions about IAQ, White and Bush are a direct result of just how bad we were last year. We hit an all time low and many wanted a change, so anytime a backup or "up and comer" made a play they were more than ready to jump on their bandwagon and write Harper and Jenkins off

Quite simply, do not put much stock into what you witnessed last year when looking at starting positions for this coming year. Everyone took their turn on Spags D looking lost at times, everyone including White, IAQ, Bush, Harper, Jenkins, Greer and P Rob (yes the whole secondary). Payton himself said the talent wasn't being used properly, that should tell you right there they aren't going to put much value in last year's game tape when the scheme was more to blame than anything else.

To suggest Jenkins is a "bust" and White is ready to be a starting corner are huge exaggerations to say the least and just examples of how much people want change after last year. Ryan is intelligent enough to know Jenkins' and Harper's strengths and weaknesses and will play them more to their strengths than Spags you can bet on that. He is going to be watching GW's tape as well as Spags, seeing what worked and didn't work and adding his own sprinkles.

What the FO does with contracts such as Harpers is anyone's guess to be honest. I am guessing a restructure, but if both Harper and Jenkins are on our 2013 roster then both will be starting for us over the backups mentioned earlier. Now if a Vaccaro is drafted of course that changes things, but I do not see White, IAQ or Bush taking any full time safety/CB roles just yet.

Well-said. I do think IAQ showed a great deal the past 2 seasons. As the nickel safety, he played close to as much as a nickel CB, and compared with say, White's production, he was much more successful. I dont remember the numbers but PFF had extremely positive grades on him through the first 2/3 of the season.

When he took over full-time--after Jenkins' injury--he was exposed like everyone else. I think he has the potential to be a starter. But I think the hyperbolic commentary on Jenkins/Harper/etc. based on a horrific defensive season by an entire defense is a pretty uncalled for.

 

[Cougar 1]

My only major concern at the safety position is: do we have a guy with the speed to be a "center-fielder?" IAQ definitely seems to play the ball better, but is Jenkins faster?

IQ ran a 4.47 at his pro day. MJ ran a 4.51 at the combine and a 4.55 at his pro day. BTW, Corey ran a 4.55 at the combine and a 4.39 at his pro day, P Rob ran a 4.46, and Jabari ran a 4.5 at the combine and a low of 4.41 at his pro day.

(From NFLDRAFTSCOUT)

But its more than straight line speed of course. Most good corners have lotsa quickness, are fluid, and have the "good swivel hips" that allow them to change direction while maintaining their speed. Bigger CBs sometimes struggle here.

One way to compensate is to play zone, where the CB can use his size, and have a smaller area to cover, as he'll have help over the top. Another way is to move to safety. MJ, CW and IQ all played CB in college, but were all projected to play safety in the NFL.

But perhaps because of his good size and speed, Spags saw "zone CB" in Corey.


Meanwhile, it seems RR will use man and some zone in his coverages. His quote about Terrence Newman in '11:


" If they’re man, he can go down there and press him. Sometimes he can go down there and press them and we’ll play [cover] 2 behind him."


With a new coach and system, who's gonna play where is anybodys guess. But IMO, it'll all start with what we do with Harp.

 

[meily]

What I dont understand is how you can argue that Spags brought a bad defensive scheme over here then in the same breath blame the players for playing bad in it?

Jenkins and Harper are our safeties nobody is even thinking about breaking that duo up...we have invested a lot in dbs with Greer, Robinson, White and Patrick and Mack proved to be a solid addition to the nickle and dime packages I don't see much tinkering there though we might take a corner is one of value falls to us...Patrick and Mack aren't locks but are solid additions for the 4th and 5th corner spot.

I think the most change will come from the defensive line and linebacking spots with position shifts and personnel additions to fit the scheme.

 

[bornnraisedwhodat]

IAQ concerms me in the run game.

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