NFL Draft Ashton Jeanty or Tyler Warren? (38 Viewers)

[Snakehead]

Drafting a RB at 9 only to give him 6-8 touches a game is criminal team building.

Jeanty would be RB1 and get a bulk of the carries.

 

[SaintLIX]

Neither take McMillon

 

[St. Geezy]

Drafting a RB at 9 only to give him 6-8 touches a game is criminal team building.

It’s almost as if you’ve never watched any games where we had Ingram and Kamara, or Sproles and Pierre, or Deuce and Reggie.

 

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

It’s almost as if you’ve never watched any games where we had Ingram and Kamara, or Sproles and Pierre, or Deuce and Reggie.

All of that is completely irrelevant.

Drafting a RB 9th overall and giving him single digit touches is terrible team building. You would have to find ways to get him more involved.

 

[Snakehead]

All of that is completely irrelevant.

Drafting a RB 9th overall and giving him single digit touches is terrible team building. You would have to find ways to get him more involved.

It won't be hard. He's getting the carries and AK will get touches, but not nearly the carries that Jeanty will get. This will extend AK's career and let him be a weapon again.

 

[St. Geezy]

All of that is completely irrelevant.

Drafting a RB 9th overall and giving him single digit touches is terrible team building. You would have to find ways to get him more involved.

How in the world is reminding you about two back system results we have had “irrelevant” to a complaint about a first round pick potentially only getting 6 to 8 carries a game? Like how???

 

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

How in the world is reminding you about two back system results we have had “irrelevant” to a complaint about a first round pick potentially only getting 6 to 8 carries a game? Like how???

Because we didn't draft any of your examples in the top 10.

Nobody is saying a two back system isn't smart or a great way to extend AKs career. Only that we should get Jeanty more involved than 6-8 touches.

 

[DSnfla]

The first part of this is right--they won't trade Kamara. But Jeanty would see much more than 6-8 carries a game. Even before becoming the HC, Kellen talked about the value of the two-back system similar to what the Saints had with Ingram and Kamara. Jeanty would be the bellcow and Kamara would have a role similar to what we saw in 2017 and 2018.

The team will not take 3-4 years to rebuild. But aside from that, building a team requires a collective process. It necessitates drafting well (not just in the first round) and using free agency to shore up areas where depth and/or talent is needed.

I am oft-amazed when fans are against drafting a particular position such as RB in the first round on the premises that we have other needs or that we are rebuilding. In the case of the latter, you take good talent wherever you can get it. Jeanty is an elite talent and this team needs more blue chip players. In the case of the former, one round does not make a draft. So, even if the Saints draft Jeanty at #9 (and right now, based on what I've heard he would be strongly considered), they will still have other rounds to tackle needs at other positions.

The last thing I'll say is generally teams like to rebuild a team by focusing on the trenches. The Saints have done that more than any other team, using first round picks on the offensive and defensive lines. It hasn't panned out. Then you look at a team like the Eagles who has one starter on the O-line who was drafted in the first round and who has a mix of guys on the D-line drafted across multiple rounds and you see why it is important to see the draft as a whole and to add talent that aligns with your vision.

There are many teams that have fallen into this category. Finding a franchise QB, to be clear, isn't easy. Then again, there are teams that had messier situations and who quickly rebuilt. It is about hiring the right people and then building the team with a real vision for developing that team into a perennial winner.

Also, I wouldn't say the roster is awful though I know that tends to be a common belief. The roster is devoid of blue chip players but it isn't awful. Jeff and his guys have done a solid job adding talent. The biggest issue I see, aside from injuries, is the talent is not being fully developed/utilized correctly. Of course, we see this with Baun. But I even think about someone like Foskey who played the "vyper" role at ND (OLB). He rarely played his hand in the dirt and generally operated out of a 2-point stance. Yet, we brought him in to play in our even front. He is one of the guys who could benefit from the potential transition to a 3-4. I think about Cesar Ruiz. I have known and worked with Ruiz going back to his days at IMG. He is best suited to play center. He played some guard early on at Michigan because Jim started Patrick Kuglar at OC. He struggled at guard. But once he moved into the starting lineup at center, he dominated. Yet, because we have McCoy and given Ruiz's injury early on (that kind of derailed the move to center), he plays right guard for us where he has ups and downs. He is a very smart and talented football player but I think he is not playing at the position he is best-suited.

So, again, there's talent. The cup isn't bare. But there has to be better coaching and better vision for the players we bring on the team. We will see how Kellen and his staff develops the team.

The Eagles starting OL has 2 #1s, 2 #2s and 1 7th rd picks. It's rare to find a top OL that is not mostly #1s and #2s

 

[St. Geezy]

Because we didn't draft any of your examples in the top 10.

Nobody is saying a two back system isn't smart or a great way to extend AKs career. Only that we should get Jeanty more involved than 6-8 touches.

You have been strongly against drafting Jeanty, campaigning hard against it.

You then just made a post saying that we should not use a #9 pick on a player we are just going to give 6 to 8 touches a game.

People then explained to you that he would likely get way more touches per game, including me citing different two back combos we have used. And now you are saying that your original post was not part of your “Don’t draft Jeanty” campaign but instead was meant to say that if we take him, we need to give him more than 6 to 8 touches per game?

Reggie Bush was picked #2 by the way. Last I checked, that’s top 10.

 

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

You have been strongly against drafting Jeanty, campaigning hard against it.

No I haven't. In fact i've said multiple times if he's BPA im good. There's a discussion to be had with two sides.

You then just made a post saying that we should not use a #9 pick on a player we are just going to give 6 to 8 touches a game.

Correct. That's a waste.

People then explained to you that he would likely get way more touches per game, including me citing different two back combos we have used. And now you are saying that your original post was not part of your “Don’t draft Jeanty” campaign but instead was meant to say that if we take him, we need to give him more than 6 to 8 touches per game?

Again. Drafting a RB at 9 has two opinions. It's not the best team building move but if there's no OL/DL there of value you take him. If you take him you need to actually utilize him more than 6-8 touches.

 

[St. Geezy]

No I haven't. In fact i've said multiple times if he's BPA im good. There's a discussion to be had with two sides.

Correct. That's a waste.


Again. Drafting a RB at 9 has two opinions. It's not the best team building move but if there's no OL/DL there of value you take him. If you take him you need to actually utilize him more than 6-8 touches.

lol, okay.

 

[DSnfla]

Great write up, I always pay attention to what you post.

I'm one who is hard on Ruiz, and you said what most know is that he's playing out of position. We don't have an opening at C. Do you think we could move him to the Chargers? They don't have a C on the roster and we don't have a Big X. I'd like to see a Ruiz for Johnston deal which would benefit both teams.

There are only a few Big X WRs on the draft and acquiring one via trade eliminates us having to draft one. I'm probably still consider Savion Williams even if we traded for Johnston b/c Williams is a playmaker and can do many things.

I think there are a few X WRs in this draft, T-Mac, Harris , Higgins , Ayomanor, Williams , Bech, Lacy, Thornton

 

[JackDiesel]

And how did Hockenson work out for them?

They have an S tier OLine so they can afford to draft as they want.

Again i'm fine with drafting whoever that's BPA. I don't have an OL worth a top 10 pick and none of the DL that I do will be there. But if you're building a team to win you need to dominate the LOS.

And how has all our offensive line and defensive line picks worked out for us?

Ok that got lost in the shuffle. I want to dominate the line of scrimmage too but I'm not ok with passing on a top 3-5 player in the draft to do it. Same goes in the opposite direction, I want an offensive playmaker but if we pass up on Carter for it, we dumb.

I think we have a mostly good offensive line minus our LG and depth. I want to see how they do with an upgrade in scheme and coaching before I start blowing everything up. I think we're closer than further on the offensive side.

 

[Snakehead]

I think there are a few X WRs in this draft, T-Mac, Harris , Higgins , Ayomanor, Williams , Bech, Lacy, Thornton

T-Mac, Higgins, Ayomanor, and Williams are all Big Xs. Bech can probably play all over, but I wouldn't call him a Big X nor would I call Lacy a Big X, but he can play it. Ayomanor and Bech are about the same height/weight so they are similar. Harris will probably start as a Big Z and develop into a Big X.

My preference would be trade for Johnston, draft Jeanty, Savion Willaims and Belton. Sign Becton. The O-line is fixed with that scenario, we add size/play making ability to the WR position and we get a stud RB to rote the rock allowing AK to evolve and extend his career.

 

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

And how has all our offensive line and defensive line picks worked out for us?

100% Loomis needs to pay for his sins. Though McCoy being our best player means something. Fuaga also looks to be a very good piece.

Our defensive line..... yikes

Ok that got lost in the shuffle. I want to dominate the line of scrimmage too but I'm not ok with passing on a top 3-5 player in the draft to do it. Same goes in the opposite direction, I want an offensive playmaker but if we pass up on Carter for it, we dumb.

I can agree with this completely.

I think we have a mostly good offensive line minus our LG and depth. I want to see how they do with an upgrade in scheme and coaching before I start blowing everything up. I think we're closer than further on the offensive side.

Penning is still pretty bad but he's no longer a lost cause. LG can be drafted in the later rounds for sure. I'm more worried about the DLine.