Attempt At Realistic Analysis of How Got Where We Are Today and Where We Really Are (1 Viewer)

Swimmer

Medsamust Saint Fan
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
16,621
Reaction score
23,838
Age
67
Location
Slaughterhouse Five
Offline
This is the best, objective view I can render, but here it goes. There is nothing I am going to say that's new, but try to recap events. I know I'm going to be off on some and miss others so I encourage you all to correct. At the end of posting the events, I encourage each of you to try and be objective on your conclusions

2009: we caught lightening in a bottle, 3 years of building the right players and coaches, Brees begins to peak and a SB is won - Hallelujah!
2010: One of the best teams in the league but suffering SB hangover
2011: Arguably the greatest Saints team of all-time and 1 play away from a 2nd SB. Greg Williams bolts at the end of the season
2012: Saints penalized more than any team in professional sports history.
- - Head coach suspended for a year. Other coaches and players suspended
- - Team loses 2 2nd round draft picks. Even with our weak drafting, that equals 1 quality starter
- - Team in total disarray. Players furious. Coaches furious
- - Draft's really begin to suck
2013 - SP is back. Team has emotional driven year and wins 1st road playoff game. Realistic hope is back. Belief in SP is back. Many of us believe 2012 is already in the rear view mirror
2014: Loss of a team leaders gets serious and character of team changes.
- - Terrible and Expensive FA moves
- - Chaos in the FO. Rita wants to convince the courts that Old Tom is senile.
- - However, the FO is still acting like we are 1 player/FA away from return to SB
- - The FO and coaches know if Rita wins, there will be changes
- - Junya goes nuts after big contract
- - Defense is horrendous. Little talent and no real leadership
- - Team is clearly showing signs of aging
- - Brees' injuries begin
- - Finish 7-9
2015: FO Chaos boils over
- - Expensive Byrd and Browner signing clearly fail (at least to this point with Byrd)
- - Worst defense in history
- - Not just coaching but clear we lack defensive talent
- - The loss of Nicks, Grubbs and the downslide of Evans and Streif manifests and we have an extremely weak O-line. Brees takes terrible physical beating and is injured 12 out of 16 games
- - There is hope that we changed our poor drafting by getting Ireland and riffing some scouts
- - Team is in Cap Hell because of bad FA moves
2016: SP comes back emotionally like his earlier days with a real fire burning
- - Guts the team of any player he considers cancer and starts to bring-in players that fit his ideal "team" culture that was the hallmark of the 2009-2011 teams
- - Brees is playing in last contract year. Unknown if injuries will continue or if he has a few more healthy years left
- - Cap Hell still
- - Lot's of young players
- - Scary bad O-line which could really impact Brees health
- - Appears we had a pretty good draft if not real good
- - Many of us hoping we catch lightening in a bottle
- - FO is settled down. Law suits are over. Tom still owns the Saints

When I read through this and leave my emotions aside, I think we are likely going to suck this year, but I am really excited about the future. Loomis and SP recognized many problems and tried to fix them. The franchise is stable. Bountygate is in the rear view mirror. To me it feels like 2008 again, maybe 2007. We just don't have a Brees at his prime and O-line to keep him safe with open passing lanes.

I don't think there's anyway for us to assess how much actual damage was done by Goodell in 2012.

This is my 2-Cents. How do the rest of you see it? Who Dat!
 

Darkhorse985

ALL-MADDEN TEAM
Joined
Oct 18, 2004
Messages
1,689
Reaction score
1,235
Offline
This is the best, objective view I can render, but here it goes. There is nothing I am going to say that's new, but try to recap events. I know I'm going to be off on some and miss others so I encourage you all to correct. At the end of posting the events, I encourage each of you to try and be objective on your conclusions

2009: we caught lightening in a bottle, 3 years of building the right players and coaches, Brees begins to peak and a SB is won - Hallelujah!
2010: One of the best teams in the league but suffering SB hangover
2011: Arguably the greatest Saints team of all-time and 1 play away from a 2nd SB. Greg Williams bolts at the end of the season
2012: Saints penalized more than any team in professional sports history.
- - Head coach suspended for a year. Other coaches and players suspended
- - Team loses 2 2nd round draft picks. Even with our weak drafting, that equals 1 quality starter
- - Team in total disarray. Players furious. Coaches furious
- - Draft's really begin to suck
2013 - SP is back. Team has emotional driven year and wins 1st road playoff game. Realistic hope is back. Belief in SP is back. Many of us believe 2012 is already in the rear view mirror
2014: Loss of a team leaders gets serious and character of team changes.
- - Terrible and Expensive FA moves
- - Chaos in the FO. Rita wants to convince the courts that Old Tom is senile.
- - However, the FO is still acting like we are 1 player/FA away from return to SB
- - The FO and coaches know if Rita wins, there will be changes
- - Junya goes nuts after big contract
- - Defense is horrendous. Little talent and no real leadership
- - Team is clearly showing signs of aging
- - Brees' injuries begin
- - Finish 7-9
2015: FO Chaos boils over
- - Expensive Byrd and Browner signing clearly fail (at least to this point with Byrd)
- - Worst defense in history
- - Not just coaching but clear we lack defensive talent
- - The loss of Nicks, Grubbs and the downslide of Evans and Streif manifests and we have an extremely weak O-line. Brees takes terrible physical beating and is injured 12 out of 16 games
- - There is hope that we changed our poor drafting by getting Ireland and riffing some scouts
- - Team is in Cap Hell because of bad FA moves
2016: SP comes back emotionally like his earlier days with a real fire burning
- - Guts the team of any player he considers cancer and starts to bring-in players that fit his ideal "team" culture that was the hallmark of the 2009-2011 teams
- - Brees is playing in last contract year. Unknown if injuries will continue or if he has a few more healthy years left
- - Cap Hell still
- - Lot's of young players
- - Scary bad O-line which could really impact Brees health
- - Appears we had a pretty good draft if not real good
- - Many of us hoping we catch lightening in a bottle
- - FO is settled down. Law suits are over. Tom still owns the Saints

When I read through this and leave my emotions aside, I think we are likely going to suck this year, but I am really excited about the future. Loomis and SP recognized many problems and tried to fix them. The franchise is stable. Bountygate is in the rear view mirror. To me it feels like 2008 again, maybe 2007. We just don't have a Brees at his prime and O-line to keep him safe with open passing lanes.

I don't think there's anyway for us to assess how much actual damage was done by Goodell in 2012.

This is my 2-Cents. How do the rest of you see it? Who Dat!
I don't know where you get this Brees' injury narrative. Brees stats and play have been consistent. With the way this team is built, it may be best for both sides if Brees moves on after this season.
 

TurboWhoDat

ALL-MADDEN TEAM
Joined
Oct 10, 2012
Messages
2,209
Reaction score
3,122
Offline
i think sean's offense has been figured out for the most part and i don't think we're putting in enough wrinkles to catch other teams off guard. sean gets a pass every season because we can always look back on the offense we produced in garbage time and say we did good overall. what used to be one of the most vicious offenses and opportune defenses is now just regressing in almost all phases. we're playing checkers while the rest of the league is playing chess. there really isn't any point in re-signing brees if it's just going to result in another 7-9 season. either we're a playoff team or we should be tanking to get better. our coaches and players will say that they always play to win, yet never say those words until we've lost the season. theres something big going on behind the scenes and it has to do with our coaches an it affects how this team works in a seriously negative way.
 

Consiglieri

Hall-of-Famer
Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Messages
4,551
Reaction score
5,018
Offline
Our current problems have three root causes:

(1) Bountygate
(2) win-now gambles on three J's (Junior, Jairus, Jimmy) did not pay off
(3) history of trading up in draft rather than down
 

No2DC

Hall-of-Famer
VIP Contributor
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
4,767
Reaction score
4,648
Offline
This is the best, objective view I can render, but here it goes. There is nothing I am going to say that's new, but try to recap events. I know I'm going to be off on some and miss others so I encourage you all to correct. At the end of posting the events, I encourage each of you to try and be objective on your conclusions

2009: we caught lightening in a bottle, 3 years of building the right players and coaches, Brees begins to peak and a SB is won - Hallelujah!
2010: One of the best teams in the league but suffering SB hangover
2011: Arguably the greatest Saints team of all-time and 1 play away from a 2nd SB. Greg Williams bolts at the end of the season
2012: Saints penalized more than any team in professional sports history.
- - Head coach suspended for a year. Other coaches and players suspended
- - Team loses 2 2nd round draft picks. Even with our weak drafting, that equals 1 quality starter
- - Team in total disarray. Players furious. Coaches furious
- - Draft's really begin to suck
2013 - SP is back. Team has emotional driven year and wins 1st road playoff game. Realistic hope is back. Belief in SP is back. Many of us believe 2012 is already in the rear view mirror
2014: Loss of a team leaders gets serious and character of team changes.
- - Terrible and Expensive FA moves
- - Chaos in the FO. Rita wants to convince the courts that Old Tom is senile.
- - However, the FO is still acting like we are 1 player/FA away from return to SB
- - The FO and coaches know if Rita wins, there will be changes
- - Junya goes nuts after big contract
- - Defense is horrendous. Little talent and no real leadership
- - Team is clearly showing signs of aging
- - Brees' injuries begin
- - Finish 7-9
2015: FO Chaos boils over
- - Expensive Byrd and Browner signing clearly fail (at least to this point with Byrd)
- - Worst defense in history
- - Not just coaching but clear we lack defensive talent
- - The loss of Nicks, Grubbs and the downslide of Evans and Streif manifests and we have an extremely weak O-line. Brees takes terrible physical beating and is injured 12 out of 16 games
- - There is hope that we changed our poor drafting by getting Ireland and riffing some scouts
- - Team is in Cap Hell because of bad FA moves
2016: SP comes back emotionally like his earlier days with a real fire burning
- - Guts the team of any player he considers cancer and starts to bring-in players that fit his ideal "team" culture that was the hallmark of the 2009-2011 teams
- - Brees is playing in last contract year. Unknown if injuries will continue or if he has a few more healthy years left
- - Cap Hell still
- - Lot's of young players
- - Scary bad O-line which could really impact Brees health
- - Appears we had a pretty good draft if not real good
- - Many of us hoping we catch lightening in a bottle
- - FO is settled down. Law suits are over. Tom still owns the Saints

When I read through this and leave my emotions aside, I think we are likely going to suck this year, but I am really excited about the future. Loomis and SP recognized many problems and tried to fix them. The franchise is stable. Bountygate is in the rear view mirror. To me it feels like 2008 again, maybe 2007. We just don't have a Brees at his prime and O-line to keep him safe with open passing lanes.

I don't think there's anyway for us to assess how much actual damage was done by Goodell in 2012.

This is my 2-Cents. How do the rest of you see it? Who Dat!
Some people may get picky, but I think you captured the essence of our situation. We are in decline and have been for a few years now. Just because SP seems serious or a couple rooks look good, it doesn't look good in the near future. The organization is playing us at this point, they know the glory days are over, but keeping SP and DB will keep some shimmer of hope, when they leave the money gets tighter. Plus, the fact the our owner is in the late part of his life doesn't help either.
 

WCoastSaintsFan

ALL-MADDEN TEAM
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
1,927
Reaction score
2,284
Location
Hayward, CA
Offline
I think you are mostly right as to how we got here. However I think there will be much disagreement in where we are going and how to get there. This is a team that is primed to have some good runs in a couple of years if they can figure out the O line. But of course that takes money and drafting well. I'm not sure you can rebuild the line with Brees in mind as by the time the work is done, Brees will be done. So do you rebuild the O now with a decent group of receivers and RB's or do you wait until Brees is done and rebuild the whole thing? One thing for sure is that we aren't the same team as we were and need to recognize that we can't go back.
 

SaintStephen1

Veteran
Joined
Aug 24, 2015
Messages
1,004
Reaction score
1,662
Offline
It's much simpler than all that. Bad drafts, too few picks, bad use of money in FA, all personnel issues. It has been my contention that it is difficult for Saints to get inflated FAs because they won't want to live in NO if the money is equal. Therefore Saints have got to become experts at using the draft to build a team by accumulating additional picks rather than giving them up.
 

BillA

ALL-MADDEN TEAM
Joined
Jul 24, 2001
Messages
2,025
Reaction score
960
Location
Mule Town
Offline
Peat does not give one hope for the present; Greyson does not inspire hope for the future. The defensive personnel, on the other hand, do provide hope.
 

WilliamBrees

ALL-MADDEN TEAM
Joined
May 1, 2014
Messages
1,777
Reaction score
331
Offline
I would rather Brees just get traded if this is the case. Carolina lost the sb last season, and that's wakeup call, Brees will have left with the only ring during his run with the saints in the division.

And the FO issues are not solved, the settlement talks failed.
 

Goatman Saint

Subscribing Member
Platinum VIP Contributor
Joined
Apr 18, 1999
Messages
22,040
Reaction score
19,636
Age
49
Location
Between here and there
Offline
No joke. At this point I think Benson should sell the team and let the new owner fire the entire management team. Cut or trade anyone above league minimum for as many draft picks as possible that way our new GM Manning and new head coach Favre can rebuild this team correctly. It wouldn't take but a couple years and we could be competitive with the Browns and the Jags.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
OP

Swimmer

Medsamust Saint Fan
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
16,621
Reaction score
23,838
Age
67
Location
Slaughterhouse Five
Offline
I think you are mostly right as to how we got here. However I think there will be much disagreement in where we are going and how to get there. This is a team that is primed to have some good runs in a couple of years if they can figure out the O line. But of course that takes money and drafting well. I'm not sure you can rebuild the line with Brees in mind as by the time the work is done, Brees will be done. So do you rebuild the O now with a decent group of receivers and RB's or do you wait until Brees is done and rebuild the whole thing? One thing for sure is that we aren't the same team as we were and need to recognize that we can't go back.
WCoast - imho, I think you summed up the $100 million question Loomis and SP are facing.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Dan in Lafayette Game analysis with T-Bob Hebert & Nick Underhill Saints Super Forum (Main Board) 2

Similar threads



Headlines

Top Bottom