Bad PI calls are killing the NFL (1 Viewer)

BoNcHiE

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Saints aside, I'm really starting to enjoy the league less because of these calls. I watch a lot of games (because of betting) and it's become ridiculous at this point. There are now sometimes half a dozen or so games a week largely decided on PI calls made late in the 4th.

No crew calls it the same either. You routinely see one team not even allowed to breath on a receiver while others get away with arm bars and grabbing like it's nothing, often within the same game with the same crew. The uncatchable portion of the rule is rarely applied correctly and seems to be at the whim of whether another team needs to be kept in a game or not (both game changing PIs against us were clearly out of bounds and uncatchable).

The rule is also way too one sided. WRs can stop on their routes or cut into a CB and still draw a flag. Teams know this and routinely throw up prayers hoping for a call. And call me a conspiracy theorist, but big market teams seem to always get more benefit of the doubt as well in crunch time.

The fact that these calls aren't reviewable makes no sense. You should at the very least be able to challenge if the ball was catchable or not. Why does the NFL insist on keeping such total control over the outcomes of games by making PI unreviewable?

Why not make the rule so that it's not a penalty unless the WRs path is actually altered (i.e. no more tick-tacky penalties because a DB touched the other guys back)?

There's no safety issue here. So what's the logic in making PI such a game-changing/one-sided affair? The NFL needs to fix this. Their product has gotten worse and worse the past few years and PI calls are are a major factor.
 

Meachemdat

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That's the big issue with it, there's absolutely no consistency with it. If it's going to be automatic at the end of games, at least change it back to a 15 yard penalty.

It's a lot easier to take a PI call when watching a college game to me.

Knowing that the rule is the way it is, our WR's need to start doing their best impression of the wacky waving arm flailing inflatable tube man after a catch.
 

insidejob

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The uncatchable ball part is what is the most frustrating about these crap calls. It's almost like it isn't part of the rule anymore.

The utter lack of consistency (even within games, like you said) is maddening. I watch a ton of non-Saints football as well and have noticed that there is no consistency to the calls as well. In Sterling Moore's locker room interview yesterday I heard on the radio, he said that they'd been letting him and Beckham go at it all day and then they called that BS call on him when Beckham was the one who pushed off and he was literally shocked. Shocked because they called it when they did with the game hanging in the balance and also because the ball was uncatchable or Beckham stopped running his route to push off/arm bar him and in essence draw the flag.

Another thing is the rate at which they throw the flag at the request of receivers. It's almost like you only get the flag if you ask for it a lot of the time.
 

coldseat

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That's the big issue with it, there's absolutely no consistency with it. If it's going to be automatic at the end of games, at least change it back to a 15 yard penalty.

It's a lot easier to take a PI call when watching a college game to me.

Knowing that the rule is the way it is, our WR's need to start doing their best impression of the wacky waving arm flailing inflatable tube man after a catch.
:plus-un2:

I was just about to say the same thing. If they're going to be so automatic, at least go back to a 15 yard penalty instead of a spot foul. We'll likely go back to defenders tackling guys once they get a step on them or when they're in the endzone, but that seems better than what we have now.

It's way to arbitrary and game changing the way it's being called. To many mistakes are being made.
 

DaveXA

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Agree, the fact that uncatchable passes can't be reviewed bothers me the most. You can review whether a QB throws an illegal forward pass, tipped balls, where balls are spotted among other things. I don't understand why uncatchable balls can't be reviewed.

And the inconsistency is beyond aggravating. Both of those late PIs in the first 2 games would not have been called early in the game. Call them consistently or don't call them at all. It's really ruining the enjoyment of the game.

Sometimes I wish there wasn't so much money riding on these games because I think it really does influence officials on some level, even if they're not putting their own money into it. If directive is coming from the NFL to keep games close, that would be a shame.

I don't know what's the explanation for the the way officials call games late, but it's obvious and really aggravating.
 

Brennan77

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It's obvious that the league likes to manufacture drama and 'parity' through the use of these subjective calls. I used to not want to believe it. But it's just so obvious. It's not NBA bad, but it's certainly getting there.

But one way I think they more subtly and effectively control the flow and competition of a game is through offensive holding. Rewatch the first half of this last game. The Giants were allowed to hold for most of the half, then were finally called on it only after it looked like they might threaten to score a TD and take control of the game. Then, almost magically after the Giants were called for two consecutive holds, the Saints pass rush looks effective. What changed? The way holding was being called (or not called).

It was and is so blatant that the most reasonable explanation is the desire of the officials to control the flow of the game. Whether that is a conscious thing I do not know. But it's absolutely real.
 

Bozzhawg318

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Saints aside, I'm really starting to enjoy the league less because of these calls. I watch a lot of games (because of betting) and it's become ridiculous at this point. There are now sometimes half a dozen or so games a week largely decided on PI calls made late in the 4th.

No crew calls it the same either. You routinely see one team not even allowed to breath on a receiver while others get away with arm bars and grabbing like it's nothing, often within the same game with the same crew. The uncatchable portion of the rule is rarely applied correctly and seems to be at the whim of whether another team needs to be kept in a game or not (both game changing PIs against us were clearly out of bounds and uncatchable).

The rule is also way too one sided. WRs can stop on their routes or cut into a CB and still draw a flag. Teams know this and routinely throw up prayers hoping for a call. And call me a conspiracy theorist, but big market teams seem to always get more benefit of the doubt as well in crunch time.

The fact that these calls aren't reviewable makes no sense. You should at the very least be able to challenge if the ball was catchable or not. Why does the NFL insist on keeping such total control over the outcomes of games by making PI unreviewable?

Why not make the rule so that it's not a penalty unless the WRs path is actually altered (i.e. no more tick-tacky penalties because a DB touched the other guys back)?

There's no safety issue here. So what's the logic in making PI such a game-changing/one-sided affair? The NFL needs to fix this. Their product has gotten worse and worse the past few years and PI calls are are a major factor.
agree 1000% . I actually posted the same thing on Facebook asking why this isn't reviewable. Not only was the pass behind OBJ he obviously initiated the contact. Living in Vegas I too place bets on these games and have noticed enough stuff over the years that makes you question the NFL/Vegas relationship. If you watch closely week in week out listen to announcers prior to the games. If you listen with a critical ear they tell you exactly who to put your money on. Is the NFL rigged? I wouldnt go that far but I would say some games are THE games you want to stay away from.
 

Optimistic Ozzy

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When you look at the Browns/Ravens game and the Brown's wide out gets flagged for flipping the ball to the ref and it slips from his grip and drops down on the corner, then gets flagged for that? That ref needs to take a seat for the rest of this year.
 

DaveXA

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FWIW, I think every part of every play should be reviewable. You still get 2 challenges plus extras if you win both challenges. So you have to be careful where and how you employ the challenges. I do not like that you can't challenge plays in the last 2 minutes. It's comes from the booth, but I'm not sure why coaches should be taken out of the equation in the last 2 minutes. That rule has never made sense to me.
 
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BoNcHiE

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agree 1000% . I actually posted the same thing on Facebook asking why this isn't reviewable. Not only was the pass behind OBJ he obviously initiated the contact. Living in Vegas I too place bets on these games and have noticed enough stuff over the years that makes you question the NFL/Vegas relationship. If you watch closely week in week out listen to announcers prior to the games. If you listen with a critical ear they tell you exactly who to put your money on. Is the NFL rigged? I wouldnt go that far but I would say some games are THE games you want to stay away from.
On that topic, take the Vikings last night.

Packers had 80+% of the money on them yet we saw reverse line movement toward the Packers anyway.

When I saw that, this was my post in the betting thread before the game:

GB -2 is such a trap line.

Public have to be slamming the heck out of that yet the line moved toward the Packers from -2.5 to -2.

If I play, it's Vikings + the points all the way. I may even go big on it.
30 minutes before I put 2 units on the Vikings.

Vikings +2 -110

I'm either gonna win or the books are going to take a bath on this game. I'll take my chances.
I'm not a genius bettor, but anyone that bets starts to see stuff like this and realize something is going on. If you don't bet, you probably won't understand.

There's a chicken or the egg argument I guess. Is Vegas just "that good" handicapping and predicting outcomes? Or are games being influenced when the money is so one-sided?

Either way, I've seen what happened last night happen way too often for it to be mere chance.
 

LoE

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Tell that to Steve Bartkowski. I'll never forget that game in 1978. Big Ben II. Mo Spencer (and the Saints fans) got screwed. I never forgave it.

Never will.

http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2012/07/21/atlanta-falcons-flashback-big-ben-parts-1-and-2/

So on Nov. 12, 1978, over 70,000 people gathered in the New Orleans Superdome and watched as Atlanta pulled off one of the greatest miracles in Falcons history.

Atlanta was down 17 -13 with only seconds left in the game. The Falcons lined up with receivers Wallace Francis, Alfred Jenkins and Alfred Jackson off to the right, and then Steve Bartkowski threw it up for grabs. Incredibly, Francis tipped the ball to Jackson, who proceeded to sprint into the end zone for the game-winning score. The Falcons won 20-17, and the 57-yard touchdown play was the birth of “Big Ben”

Two weeks later, the Saints came to Atlanta hoping to even the score. And in a sense, they were right. The score did end up the same as before, only once again in the Falcons favor.

The penultimate play of the game looked like a carbon copy of the game in New Orleans, only this time Bartkowski’s pass was intercepted by Saints defensive back Mo Spencer. Then, inexplicably, Spencer was called for pass interference, giving the Falcons the ball on the 1 yard line. The Falcons ran it in on the next play as time expired, and the previous pass play became known as “Big Ben II.”

The NFL later recognized that the pass interference call was incorrect, and rules for defenders making a legitimate play on the ball were relaxed in future seasons as a result of this play.
 

Surviving Saint

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I'm not a genius bettor, but anyone that bets starts to see stuff like this and realize something is going on. If you don't bet, you probably won't understand.

There's a chicken or the egg argument I guess. Is Vegas just "that good" handicapping and predicting outcomes? Or are games being influenced when the money is so one-sided?

Either way, I've seen what happened last night happen way too often for it to be mere chance.
Its not chance. You dont leave millions of dollars at stake left up to chance. I used the motivation thing to try and sway Brock off his bet instead of just saying the game is fixed.

Vegas doesnt handicap the games. They handicap the fans. They put a number out there that will get 50/50 action on both sides. Thats what they want us to believe. The truth is they take a side.

Aaron Rodgers vs Sam Bradford. Packers -3.5 at some places, and line drops to -1.5 before the game.

Vegas knew they would sucker everyone on an Aaron Rodgers Packer team and anyone watching the game last night saw Aaron Rodgers look like he just discovered a football and didnt know what to do with it. Unreal, but this is how money is made. I wont go so far as to say he was in on it, but it wouldnt surprise me at all. His frustration wasnt the Vikings defense and that last pass was such a joke. He never makes that throw in Lambeau Field.

That is the illusion of parity. This game played without tampering 10/10 the Packers win the game by a bunch.

77% on the Over 44. Both teams punt all game.

85% on Saints Giants Over 51-54.5, Both teams cant score. Its silly when you think about it.

I will get red thumbed for this but I dont care. These games are played with money, not X's and O's
 
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BoNcHiE

BoNcHiE

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The NFL is eating itself, 1 game at a time.
They actually proposed to make PI penalties reviewable this past offseason. Yet, the rules committee killed it.

Go take a look at who is on that committee and you'll probably notice something about it's makeup. And who has absolute control over who gets on that committee? Roger Goodell of course.
 

nolaswede

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On that topic, take the Vikings last night.

Packers had 80+% of the money on them yet we saw reverse line movement toward the Packers anyway.

When I saw that, this was my post in the betting thread before the game:



30 minutes before I put 2 units on the Vikings.



I'm not a genius bettor, but anyone that bets starts to see stuff like this and realize something is going on. If you don't bet, you probably won't understand.

There's a chicken or the egg argument I guess. Is Vegas just "that good" handicapping and predicting outcomes? Or are games being influenced when the money is so one-sided?

Either way, I've seen what happened last night happen way too often for it to be mere chance.
Well, yesterday most "sharps" were on the Vikings so that was a good call. Pretty mush impossible to find out how much $ is being placed on either team, but when 80% of the public is on the Packers and the line doesn't move in that direction, you can figure out where the "smartest" bettors put their $.

Would be great to find out the exact $ each week. Good call in the Vikings!
 

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