Bad PI calls are killing the NFL (1 Viewer)

[superchuck500]

PI calls need to be reviewable - bottom line. As long as you have a clear standard of review that is deferential to the ref's call but will also reverse in cases where there was no PI or the ball was uncatchable, it will work better than it is now.

The call on Moore was horrible. OBJ initiated the contact, the DB is running and the WR reaches back to initiate hand slapping and they call PI? Horrible. That was all obvious by the replay.

 

[Mojomajik9]

This is why my enthusiasm for the NFL dwindles every season. I used to watch every game I could find on tv and the NFL Network and ESPN. Not now though. I just watch the Saints listen to WWL or read the local guys like Underhill. When referees dictate the game and change the outcome on phantom calls or ignore calls (remember Junior getting choked in the Patriots game?) it completely kills the fun of watching the game to me. Whether it's rigged or not I don't know but games shouldn't be decided by the refs

 

[sfam]

I watched every Saints game possible prior to the sham known as "Bounty gate". I watched them in the 70's when we were known as the Aints and when we lost I knew it was because the other team was flat out better. Now, I find myself screaming at the TV in utter disbelief of how the Saints games are being officiated. We have lost two games in row now due to phantom PI calls and I can't bring myself to watch this nonsense any longer. The talent level on each NFL teams are so close now that one BS call at the right time (wrong time for Saints) can completely change the outcome of the game.

There is simply too much money at stake to allow these games to play out without the NFL having a way to be able to manipulate the final score and ensure maximum profit. Thus, the reason why PI calls, and other penalties, are not reviewable. The Saints win the Raiders game with certainty without that BS PI call that kept their drive going. Fast forward one full week and it is a rinse and repeat! So, please tell me why next week will be any different?

 

[St. Geezy]

First of all, completely agree with the main premise of this thread - P.I. calls are killing the game. I am so tired of waiting for flags following big third down stops. I am so tired of offenses being bailed out of 3rd and 20 due to a cheap 5-yard illegal contact penalty that gives an automatic first down.

On the issue of betting conspiracy theories. No, I don't buy that there is some league-wide conspiracy. However I do 100% believe that there are rogue refs out there with betting-driven agendas or acting on behalf of others with betting-driven agendas.

There are so many ways for those guys to subtly effect games without being noticed - guys that consistently spot the ball poorly, especially when first downs are in question, guys that throw flags for ticky-tack calls on third downs, etc. Sometimes, it is easy to pin-point "that guy" early in games and you just know they're going to do something shady later, and when it happens, it is eye-opening.

 

[English]

When there is doubt, there is no doubt.
Too much money to be made for the outcome not to be tinkered with.

 

[SWAMP_THING]

All I know as a life long Saints fan is that this team is rarely allowed to "steal wins" by any help from the refs, as opposed to the other way around..and when it does happen it's all over ESPN, NFL.COM etc shouting out loud and clear the Saints won because of such and such bad/no call...yeaaa we know what's up but we're also used to it

 

[Saint Floyd]

Right on. My friends and I have discussed how little we even enjoy the NFL anymore, and these constant defensive penalties are one of the major reasons. If it isn't a Saints game, I pretty much won't watch this league anymore. It's terrible.

 

[Bozzhawg318]

Saints aside, I'm really starting to enjoy the league less because of these calls. I watch a lot of games (because of betting) and it's become ridiculous at this point. There are now sometimes half a dozen or so games a week largely decided on PI calls made late in the 4th.

No crew calls it the same either. You routinely see one team not even allowed to breath on a receiver while others get away with arm bars and grabbing like it's nothing, often within the same game with the same crew. The uncatchable portion of the rule is rarely applied correctly and seems to be at the whim of whether another team needs to be kept in a game or not (both game changing PIs against us were clearly out of bounds and uncatchable).

The rule is also way too one sided. WRs can stop on their routes or cut into a CB and still draw a flag. Teams know this and routinely throw up prayers hoping for a call. And call me a conspiracy theorist, but big market teams seem to always get more benefit of the doubt as well in crunch time.

The fact that these calls aren't reviewable makes no sense. You should at the very least be able to challenge if the ball was catchable or not. Why does the NFL insist on keeping such total control over the outcomes of games by making PI unreviewable?

Why not make the rule so that it's not a penalty unless the WRs path is actually altered (i.e. no more tick-tacky penalties because a DB touched the other guys back)?

There's no safety issue here. So what's the logic in making PI such a game-changing/one-sided affair? The NFL needs to fix this. Their product has gotten worse and worse the past few years and PI calls are are a major factor.

Posted this thread 5yrs ago. Started out poorly. I think surviving saint was the only one on board out the gate

http://saintsreport.com/forums/f2/expect-poorly-officiated-game-sunday-216370/#.V-Bcp1srK00

 

[Winter]

I texted my dad during the game this exact thing. "They need to do something about these pass interference calls. Ruins the game"

I can't just enjoy the game and react when something happens. Every play beyond ten yards, theres 2-3 seconds of wondering if there is a flag on the play or is going to be thrown. The ones clearly thrown after the play are ridiculous and there were 2 of those in the Raiders game.

Its no longer nerve wracking at the end of a game because I'm hoping my team pulls it off, its nerve wracking because I don't know if my team is going to get screwed or not.

Like other posters have said, teams are just shooting for the PI call now. Throw a couple deep passes and hopefully get a call. Looking at the OBJ play, there's no way Manning was "throwing him open" and his throw was too early to know if he would get open.

Its bad when players are expecting flags on every play too. I even saw the rook Thomas expect a flag after a play. Its a bad culture, a bad expectation, and such a powerful aspect that in no way, benefits the players or the fans.

 

[Gumerk]

Amen! It drives me and everyone I know nuts to sit through a game like you're describing and see this happen week in and week out then sit through more with the same scenario only to see it ignored. The foul as it stands has absolutely no consistency in the way it's called each week.

It's like the NFL's ultimate ace in the hole when a game needs to be flipped one way or another. And absolutely, why would they not make such a crucial game/drive altering call reviewable?

I'll even add that it's absurd that it's a spot foul. How many times have we watched the ending of a game when a team was out of it and the QB lobs it up in the air 40-60 yards, getting the PI call?

Make it just like college, 15 yard penalty and an automatic first down. If they say the DB's will just exploit it, fine let em! If I'm on offense I'll take 15 and a new set of downs every time. That's at least balanced.

I don't know the protocol to petition the league to address this but the very fact that the owners and the NFL have just ignored it helps me to believe it's absolutely just the way they want it.

I am so tired of offenses being bailed out of 3rd and 20 due to a cheap 5-yard illegal contact penalty that gives an automatic first down.

Ahh, yes -- this too is just as frustrating, good point.

 

[Wheryat]

Maybe if somebody put all of the PI's into a database over the past 3-5 years and then added the relevant point spreads of the associated games they might find after a statistical analysis that there was a very high correlation between the late 4th qtr PI's and the betting spreads. Just saying.....

 

[Krodwhodat]

The uncatchable ball part is what is the most frustrating about these crap calls. It's almost like it isn't part of the rule anymore.

The utter lack of consistency (even within games, like you said) is maddening. I watch a ton of non-Saints football as well and have noticed that there is no consistency to the calls as well. In Sterling Moore's locker room interview yesterday I heard on the radio, he said that they'd been letting him and Beckham go at it all day and then they called that BS call on him when Beckham was the one who pushed off and he was literally shocked. Shocked because they called it when they did with the game hanging in the balance and also because the ball was uncatchable or Beckham stopped running his route to push off/arm bar him and in essence draw the flag.

Another thing is the rate at which they throw the flag at the request of receivers. It's almost like you only get the flag if you ask for it a lot of the time.

The uncatchable call should be reviewable. That's a no brainier to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[firecouch]

lus-un2:



I was just about to say the same thing. If they're going to be so automatic, at least go back to a 15 yard penalty instead of a spot foul. We'll likely go back to defenders tackling guys once they get a step on them or when they're in the endzone, but that seems better than what we have now.



It's way to arbitrary and game changing the way it's being called. To many mistakes are being made.

A solution to the defenders tackling receivers could be to make two forms of the penalty. One being 15 yards for your standard unintentional PI, the other being a spot of the foul penalty for a deliberate PI.

 

[DaveXA]

Now that I think about it, don't think it would matter if it's reviewable. They'll get the Saints for something else. It's just the way of the world I guess. Heh.

 

[Surviving Saint]

Maybe if somebody put all of the PI's into a database over the past 3-5 years and then added the relevant point spreads of the associated games they might find after a statistical analysis that there was a very high correlation between the late 4th qtr PI's and the betting spreads. Just saying.....

You dont need to do that. Just jot all the numbers down for the games you can watch. Then watch how they play and the calls on the field with those numbers attached and you will start to see a pattern. Do it long enough and you will know exactly how some drives will end just based on those numbers. Sure there are blowouts, but thats by design also. Remember, Teasers (parlay where you can buy points) are factored in the line.

You seldom want to cross 0 with a teaser. Ex. Team is -2.5. 7 point teaser makes the favorite +4.5.

Usually thats a recipe for disaster. So most will tease the dog to +9.5 or 10, You see a blow out happen and thats why.

You will see the script playing out to a T when you have the numbers in front of you. How the team plays, do they run, pass, miss a FG, etc. It all looks random, but its not. I have watched too many NFL games in my life to know that these numbers along with money determine exactly what will happen during the course of a game. They tell you the game is scripted every week and people think its just a word they like to use. "You couldnt script it any better" is a favorite phrase they love to use, and they arent lying.