Barack Obama's Controversial Pastor Puts Church (and possibly Barack) In Hot Water (1 Viewer)

[RebSaint]

Apparently, you missed this 10 posts up from your post?

So your point is that NewsMax's expose on Obama will have more credibility, say then any information on Hillary Clinton or the Clinton campaign?

Take your pick.

http://www.newsmax.com/morris/Hillary_Unmasked_morris/2008/02/29/76871.html\
http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/hillary_double-speak/2007/09/26/35766.html
http://www.newsmax.com/morris/Hillary_losing_fair_fight/2008/02/21/74410.html

 

[DavidM]

I still have trouble grappling with the implication that he is somehow a black-power, hate-America type. His mother was white. He is running for the presidency of the United States. Yeeeeeah.

Odd, even knowing that, it seems a point that hasn't been fully considered here. In all of our zeal to make of this what we want, it seems an important observation that hasn't been at the forefront.

Even though I don't believe Wright to be a racist, and am still unclear how his speaking frankly on matters of race has him painted as an avowed racist, it seems laughable that Obama should be suspected of such by association.

Thanks for the injected reality check, Pasty.

 

[V Chip]

Let me help you connect the dots. Is it better for Obama to be view as someone who went to that church because he bought into all of Rev. Wright's garbage, or because the church was a useful networking site and launchpad for a young, ambitious Chicago Southsider wanting to be a local politician?

I'd say given those two options, the latter.

Two points:
1) You assume it has to be one of those two options. When I was a Christian, I chose my church largely based on friendships and feeling at home, not because I needed connections, nor because of the pastor's sermons and how they fit with me. It's possible that's exactly what Obama did. Saying it's one or the other of your two options is overly simplifying it.
2) My point was not about Obama's opportunism really, it was about you decrying Obama as an opportunist yet you proudly support Clinton. To me, that's like someone who eats McDonalds every day calling Texas Roadhouse a dump.

 

[Sabine]

So your point is that NewsMax's expose on Obama will have more credibility, say then any information on Hillary Clinton or the Clinton campaign?

Now, how did you get that from my post? Let me say it again. Everyone is free to do their own research and free to use judgment and common sense in weighing the credibility, content and source of everything they read. I encourage everyone to do so.

On the other hand, if you're just being contentious for the fun of it, I'll happily ignore your posts until you get it out of your system.

 

[SaintsFan11]

Obama plans major race speech tomorrow
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

Barack Obama will give a major speech on "the larger issue of race in this campaign," he told reporters in Monaca, PA just now.

He was pressed there, as he has been at recent appearances, on statements by his former pastor, Jeremiah Wright.

"I am going to be talking about not just Reverend Wright, but the larger issue of race in this campaign," he said.




Did I call it or what?

He needs to come out in a primetime network interview or major address and lay all of the cards out on the table. His "I didn't hear any of the sermons" line may stop the bleeding for the moment, but I don't think anyone believes that Obama was ignorant of these outbursts. The best move is to come out and explain why he was draw to the church and why he was drawn to Wright, and talk about debates they might have had in private. He needs to highlight the generational differences in racial thinking and talk about his own experiences. He should explain the context of the activist African-American church, why he is part of it and how he transcends the negativity. The sooner he does this the better. To say that "I wasn't there that day" is a mistake in the long term because now the media will be looking for the smoking gun to prove him wrong. This "wiggle room" will drive the story. He's got to come out and deal with it head on.

If anyone has the ability to do it, Obama does, but it needs to be swift. Monday or Tuesday. It's the only way to put this to bed.

I wonder if the campaign is hiring? I'd probably come a lot cheaper than Axlerod...


Also, what do you think the over/under should be on the amount of times Obama invokes his (white) mother? If his blackness is the only reason he is ahead at this point, his whiteness may be what puts him over the top.

 

[MackeyM]

post #666. had to get in there. not to often you get to do that. carry on.

GObama! 08

 

[RebSaint]

Now, how did you get that from my post? Let me say it again. Everyone is free to do their own research and free to use judgment and common sense in weighing the credibility, content and source of everything they read. I encourage everyone to do so.

On the other hand, if you're just being contentious for the fun of it, I'll happily ignore your posts until you get it out of your system.

Then you better put me on your ignore list.

I'm not being contentious for the "fun of it." I'm challenging the logic of your assessment of Obama.

Your right, I'm using my best judgement and common sense and from where I sit, the credibility of the NewsMax's perspective of Obama is compromised--you seemed to put a lot of weight into its credibility, and I'm just wondering if other comparable pieces on Clinton have just as much, or equal standing in your eyes.

I think I've demonstrated the lengths to which supporters of their candidates to go--it's almost as if they become blind to rationality, reason, and simple logic.

 

[LSSpam]

Now, those making a lot of political noise regarding Rev. Wright's comments and his connection to Obama would have a point if Obama's political message were comparable. But it isn't.

In the rush to defend Obama a lot of stuff is getting glazed over. Which, in turn, is only promoting more backlash because people skip obvious points.

No, no, no, no. This is not just some passing association. Wright married Obama, baptized his childern, was lauded repeatedly by Obama, held an official position in Obama's campaign. Obama did far more then just associate with Wright.

So it's not unfair to ask Obama to clarify his positions in regards to Wright's positions. Which, mind you, while perhaps understandable, are frankly in many cases divisive and sometimes outright paranoid.

Don't just completely dismiss this because you want to defend Obama so strongly. You don't have to. So doing so only hurts your argument and the overall discussion.

Obama, certainly had something to answer for, and any assertion to the contrary is "head in the sand". Now, Obama has answered this to most peoples' satisfaction, so we can begin the discussion there. But don't just dismiss someone Obama himself has credit as a tremendous influence and big part of his life giving us gems like "the US government created AIDs to commit genocide in Africa". Yeah, i'm afraid if your best friend or wife or father or whoever says that, I'm going to need you to at least roll your eyes and make the "he's crazy" sign, even if I've known you for years (which, mind you, the American public hasn't known Obama for years like they have Hillary or McCain)

 

[RebSaint]

In the rush to defend Obama a lot of stuff is getting glazed over. Which, in turn, is only promoting more backlash because people skip obvious points.

No, no, no, no. This is not just some passing association. Wright married Obama, baptized his childern, was lauded repeatedly by Obama, held an official position in Obama's campaign. Obama did far more then just associate with Wright.

So it's not unfair to ask Obama to clarify his positions in regards to Wright's positions. Which, mind you, while perhaps understandable, are frankly in many cases divisive and sometimes outright paranoid.

Don't just completely dismiss this because you want to defend Obama so strongly. You don't have to. So doing so only hurts your argument and the overall discussion.

Obama, certainly had something to answer for, and any assertion to the contrary is "head in the sand". Now, Obama has answered this to most peoples' satisfaction, so we can begin the discussion there. But don't just dismiss someone Obama himself has credit as a tremendous influence and big part of his life giving us gems like "the US government created AIDs to commit genocide in Africa". Yeah, i'm afraid if your best friend or wife or father or whoever says that, I'm going to need you to at least roll your eyes and make the "he's crazy" sign, even if I've known you for years (which, mind you, the American public hasn't known Obama for years like they have Hillary or McCain)

These are all fair points; completely agree here.

 

[SaintsFan11]

I don't think having an event in the early afternoon in Miami makes it impossible for Obama to have attended the early service at TUCC. His website's claim that he didn't go to church that day might be more convincing, but weigh that against all those pesky Rezko untruths. I agree with the previous poster that the "standard of proof to would have to be an unedited smooth camera sweep from Rev Wright making an inflammatory remark, to an Obama standing and cheering," in order to chink Obama's armor.

Bill Kristol now admits he was wrong, Obama did not attend the service in question, as reported by the NewsMax columnist:

In this column, I cite a report that Sen. Obama had attended services at Trinity Church on July 22, 2007. The Obama camapaign has provided information showing that Senator Obama did not attend Trinity that day. I regret the error.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/17/o...f0e5e73f16d793&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Oops!

 

[iron error]

In the rush to defend Obama a lot of stuff is getting glazed over. Which, in turn, is only promoting more backlash because people skip obvious points.

No, no, no, no. This is not just some passing association. Wright married Obama, baptized his childern, was lauded repeatedly by Obama, held an official position in Obama's campaign. Obama did far more then just associate with Wright.

So it's not unfair to ask Obama to clarify his positions in regards to Wright's positions. Which, mind you, while perhaps understandable, are frankly in many cases divisive and sometimes outright paranoid.

Don't just completely dismiss this because you want to defend Obama so strongly. You don't have to. So doing so only hurts your argument and the overall discussion.

Obama, certainly had something to answer for, and any assertion to the contrary is "head in the sand". Now, Obama has answered this to most peoples' satisfaction, so we can begin the discussion there. But don't just dismiss someone Obama himself has credit as a tremendous influence and big part of his life giving us gems like "the US government created AIDs to commit genocide in Africa". Yeah, i'm afraid if your best friend or wife or father or whoever says that, I'm going to need you to at least roll your eyes and make the "he's crazy" sign, even if I've known you for years (which, mind you, the American public hasn't known Obama for years like they have Hillary or McCain)

why you or anyone has to explain this point in this way, or a little different way, for the 20th time I will not ever understand I guess...

 

[DavidM]

These are all fair points; completely agree here.

I think some reasonable points, as well.

I'd only add that the "glossing over" has been a two-way street.

If the argument is that Obama supporters aren't giving a full and fair evaluation to all of the facts, I'd say the exact is true of his critics on this issue.

 

[V Chip]

Wright married Obama

homophobic!

baptized his childern

racist!

was lauded repeatedly by Obama

Laudist!

Hillary or McCain

Sexist!

 

[LSSpam]

These are all fair points; completely agree here.

Alright, well, that established, Obama did reject all of the controversial statements by Wright. Without qualification and across the board. He made as sweeping and complete a rejection as you could ask.

Given that, what else can the guy do? You pretty much have to take him at his word. He's never given an indication in the past that he believed that sort of stuff, so unless he gives any indication in the future there's really no cause to attribute Wright's statements to Obama. Unless you think there's some sort of "Manchurian Candidate" aspect going on here which, frankly, is nuttier then anything I've seen Wright say so far.

I do think the whole affair rubs some of the shine off Obama. It's evident he's not above "politics as usual" and his exploitation of his relationship with Wright early on and his immediate distancing from him now smacks as political expediency. I don't blame him for it, it just puts him a little more in the same bracket as most any other politician.

But Obama isn't some crazy rabid anti-white/establishment revolutionary waiting to win the election and begin his reign of black terror either.

 

[champ76]

Even though I don't believe Wright to be a racist, and am still unclear how his speaking frankly on matters of race has him painted as an avowed racist, it seems laughable that Obama should be suspected of such by association.

After listening to more and more of Rev. Wright's hate filled rhetoric, there is no doubt in my mind he is racist. I don't know enough about Obama to know if he's racist(and I start from the premise he is not), but his association with Wright is a factor to consider in that calculation.

What's being lost in all this is the hate filled speech that spews forth from the pulpit in this and other African- American churches, in local cable tv shows(there is one here in Lafayette that will curl your toes if you listen), and on black radio. I am not going to get into a drawn out discussion of grievances, but there is a manner and place of talking about them that will help heal the divide between the races in this country, not make it worse, and people like Rev. Wright do nothing to help in that discourse. Rather, his manner exacerbates the situation, which by all accounts plays very well with his congregation.