Barack Obama's Controversial Pastor Puts Church (and possibly Barack) In Hot Water (1 Viewer)

It think it's far riskier to not address the issue than to take it head on. That way, he can reify his condemnation for Wright's statements, yet qualify his position that not everyone in the congregation has to agree with what a pastor, priest, etc. says on secular issues.

It's not an uncessary gamble considering the consequences for avoiding the issue altogether. Sure, it'll get more toungues wagging, but at least the American people will again, know Obama's position.

Do you think he would actually say he agreed with all of that, if his presendential run hasn't taken a big enough blow, that would for sure kill it?

I'm not sure what everyone is looking for him to say other than that he doesn't believe any of the bad stuff and he only believes the good stuff.
Guess I am not following.
 
Okay. Since Pasty didn't place the quote in context, I will. Pasty I think will weigh in on why he posted the sermon, and if my assessment of his intententions were incorrect, but I'll take a shot at it nonetheless.

I think the historical parallel drawn between Douglas and Wright is a relevant one, in the sense of what both men said and as it relates to the respective climates.

Some can only see the issue as simply as, Wright is a racist. While I don't agree with the conclusion, I respect that for some people it renders Obama unfit for the office in their opinion.

I still think it would be interesting to the discussion to get feedback on how others here feel about the current state of race relations and related sociological and political concerns. I think that's a part of the issue that some have simply danced around or ignored, but I think it's a context to have the discussion. It might help all of us relate our positions better.
 
Bush's Pastor and McCain's Pastor's have made questionable comments in the past also. Why aren't we discussing them also, if what Pastor's say mean that much?
 
So am I. It could make or break his campaign.

It's a definantly a gamble. The "smart" (read: safe) thing to do would be to simply move on. Barring anything "catastrophic" (Obama chanting "Death to Whitey" on tape with a raised fist, etc) he should survive this as is. It's going to hurt him and probably have an effect even in November, but it's not going to sink his campaign or anything.

Continuing to take this on aggressively is a real risk. There's always to risk of coming across "wrong" which would compound everything. But the most likely case is an unremarkable speech that does little good or harm. Which does nothing else but keep this story in the news for at least another week to Obama's detriment.

So he's really banking on not even just a "decent" speech but something real defining. It's a bit like Babe Ruth calling his shot, which I find "ballsy".

But for reference, I always appreciate guts :hihi:
 
Bush's Pastor and McCain's Pastor's have made questionable comments in the past also. Why aren't we discussing them also, if what Pastor's say mean that much?

I'd like to see some quotes... and I'm not saying that sarcastically.
 
Okay. Since Pasty didn't place the quote in context, I will. Pasty I think will weigh in on why he posted the sermon, and if my assessment of his intententions were incorrect, but I'll take a shot at it nonetheless.

The point goes back to DavidM's post: Frederick Douglass when he made that speech was considered a radical, as were most abolitionists. Abolitionism in 1841 was a minority position and very unpopular with most Americans (especially southerners, obviously) Regarding sensitive issues concerning race, there are many black activists whose rhetoric is off-putting and downright offensive. I'm not defending it. Now, many in 1841 probably thought Douglass's rhetoric to be just as off-putting.

We can easily dismiss Wright's comments as coming from some lunatic racist, or we can place them in a broader context of the plight of the black community, being not-so-far removed from racial autrocities, Jim Crow, segregation, etc. I'm not comparing the black plight to slavery in 1841, but as DavidM so aptly pointed out, these comments need to be placed in a larger context of the black struggle for equality and the problems which still plague the black community. I'm not defending his remarks, but from an historical, sociological, and human standpoint one can see where these comments might be over the top just to gain recognition and call attention to issues which need to be addressed.

I think Pasty's posting Douglass's sermon underscored DavidM's very thoughtful insights. :shrug:

Thanks for saying what I wanted to say better than I could have done.

The truth is that I was trying to emphasize the importance (1) of clicking the link before you react :)mad:), and more importantly, (2), that Wright is writing within a tradition of discourse that has its roots in Douglass's quest (the virtue of which most of us can openly acknowledge) for social justice.

I was purposely vague about the source in hopes that people would click the link to figure out when exactly these volatile words were spoken. I thought at least that those eager to condemn Obama by association might look to find the date so that they could start checking to see whether Obama had a fundraiser on that day :)hihi:).

The truth is that we really aren't many years past a cultural history of despicable inhumanity. Yes, each of us personally may be completely innocent but that doesn't negate the history of our country (if Chop were still here, I'm sure he'd have a few things to say about the settlers' treatment of Native Americans), and it's that history, which cannot be ignored or denied, that provides a foundation for the "radical" speech of Wright.

I can tell you that when I try to put myself in someone else's shoes and understand the experiences of poor, inner-city African-Americans, I feel inadequate to the task. They don't know my life, and I don't know theirs. And just maybe, trying to see things through their eyes would help us to achieve a bit of perspective on this whole Wright mess. To me, it seems the sane thing to do, rather than just get :mad: and cry "reverse racism!" and "love it or leave it!"
 
Who cares what you or I think? Let's see the impact of Wright on voters.

Source: http://www.myfoxkc.com/myfox/pages/...=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.11.1

After viewing the video, are you more likely or less likely to support Senator Barack Obama?
<TABLE cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=5 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD> </TD><TD>Democrats</TD><TD>Republicans</TD><TD>Independents</TD></TR><TR><TD>More likely</TD><TD>19%</TD><TD>7%</TD><TD>18%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Less likely</TD><TD>52%</TD><TD>71%</TD><TD>54%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Don’t know</TD><TD>28%</TD><TD>22%</TD><TD>29%</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Do you think Barack Obama’s religious ties will to Jeremiah Wright will help or hurt his campaign efforts?
Prior to viewing the video segments:
<TABLE cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=5 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD> </TD><TD>Democrats</TD><TD>Republicans</TD><TD>Independents</TD></TR><TR><TD>Help</TD><TD>6%</TD><TD>2%</TD><TD>5%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Hurt</TD><TD>64%</TD><TD>71%</TD><TD>65%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Don’t know</TD><TD>30%</TD><TD>27%</TD><TD>30%</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
After viewing the video segments:
<TABLE cellSpacing=5 cellPadding=5 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD> </TD><TD>Democrats</TD><TD>Republicans</TD><TD>Independents</TD></TR><TR><TD>Help</TD><TD>7%</TD><TD>6%</TD><TD>9%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Hurt</TD><TD>77%</TD><TD>84%</TD><TD>78%</TD></TR><TR><TD>Don’t know</TD><TD>16%</TD><TD>10%</TD><TD>14%</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 
Thanks for saying what I wanted to say better than I could have done.

The truth is that I was trying to emphasize the importance (1) of clicking the link before you react :)mad:), and more importantly, (2), that Wright is writing within a tradition of discourse that has its roots in Douglass's quest (the virtue of which most of us can openly acknowledge) for social justice.

I was purposely vague about the source in hopes that people would click the link to figure out when exactly these volatile words were spoken. I thought at least that those eager to condemn Obama by association might look to find the date so that they could start checking to see whether Obama had a fundraiser on that day :)hihi:).

The truth is that we really aren't many years past a cultural history of despicable inhumanity. Yes, each of us personally may be completely innocent but that doesn't negate the history of our country (if Chop were still here, I'm sure he'd have a few things to say about the settlers' treatment of Native Americans), and it's that history, which cannot be ignored or denied, that provides a foundation for the "radical" speech of Wright.

I can tell you that when I try to put myself in someone else's shoes and understand the experiences of poor, inner-city African-Americans, I feel inadequate to the task. They don't know my life, and I don't know theirs. And just maybe, trying to see things through their eyes would help us to achieve a bit of perspective on this whole Wright mess. To me, it seems the sane thing to do, rather than just get :mad: and cry "reverse racism!" and "love it or leave it!"

Cry me a river. The truth is, in most ways, we are past the history of despicable inhumanity, and are eager and anxious to move forward. For a pastor to use racist inflammatory oratory in a house of God for no reason other than to pick at the scabs of history is the antithesis of Martin Luther King. It is unhelpful, except to build a power base among those who are ready, willing and eager to believe. It is anything but the "politics of hope."
 
Thanks for saying what I wanted to say better than I could have done.

The truth is that I was trying to emphasize the importance (1) of clicking the link before you react :)mad:), and more importantly, (2), that Wright is writing within a tradition of discourse that has its roots in Douglass's quest (the virtue of which most of us can openly acknowledge) for social justice.

I was purposely vague about the source in hopes that people would click the link to figure out when exactly these volatile words were spoken. I thought at least that those eager to condemn Obama by association might look to find the date so that they could start checking to see whether Obama had a fundraiser on that day :)hihi:).

The truth is that we really aren't many years past a cultural history of despicable inhumanity. Yes, each of us personally may be completely innocent but that doesn't negate the history of our country (if Chop were still here, I'm sure he'd have a few things to say about the settlers' treatment of Native Americans), and it's that history, which cannot be ignored or denied, that provides a foundation for the "radical" speech of Wright.

I can tell you that when I try to put myself in someone else's shoes and understand the experiences of poor, inner-city African-Americans, I feel inadequate to the task. They don't know my life, and I don't know theirs. And just maybe, trying to see things through their eyes would help us to achieve a bit of perspective on this whole Wright mess. To me, it seems the sane thing to do, rather than just get :mad: and cry "reverse racism!" and "love it or leave it!"

I agree there is a huge need for more empathy and understanding. However, it is a slippery-slope when a deaf ear/free-pass is given in this situation. Is the language we heard the appropriate way or only way to bring issues to the forefront? If bitterness, though based on real issues, turns to hatred, is society OK with the inflammatory rhetoric no matter what is being said or thrown out, true or exagerated? Is NON-peaceful protest acceptable then to bring things to the forefront or attention?

If I had more access to his sermons and could determine so, I would likely feel better about his calling it like he sees it regarding "white america" if he also blamed "black america" for its own faults. If memory serves me correct, Obama has ventured there on occasion (faulting some of the problems plaguing the inner-city on its own actions/inactions).
 
Yeah, decrying. Decry means to condemn openly and I kinda got the feeling that's exactly what you were doing.

It is not my intention to come across as rude, but I think you are seriously underestimating the way you're coming across on the boards if you think I have read more into your posts than you intend.

Well, I could be underestimating how I come across, and I'll grant you that. Just to be clear, I don't hate the guy, but I'm not a fan. As for Clinton, I wouldn't be surprised if I have more respect for her than anyone else here but again, that ain't saying as much as one might assume considering those that frequent this forum.

Ahh yer being DD for the Dems, so to speak, taking up positions that LOOK like you support Clinton but actually just playing devil's advocate.
:scratch:
No, I do think she's the most qualified of the the 3. However, I have played devil's advocate a few times - when I'm not being lazy and there are three pages of everyone saying the same thing, or when someone's being piled on.

Well maybe your ideal candidate is waiting for you to take the first step? :mwink:
:hihi: Well played. :hihi:

Hey if you're interested, Newsmax is sticking by their story that Obama was in church:
http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/Obama_hate_America_sermon/2008/03/16/80870.html
 
Bush's Pastor and McCain's Pastor's have made questionable comments in the past also. Why aren't we discussing them also, if what Pastor's say mean that much?

I would bet the only quotes you will get out of their home church's pastor is some middle-of-the-road mainstream comfortable, lets be better people, type of language. I just say it in this way, cause your way off point.

If you referring to Pastors they know and have even visited the church of, then you are on point.

But there is a HUGE difference.
 
It's a definantly a gamble. The "smart" (read: safe) thing to do would be to simply move on. Barring anything "catastrophic" (Obama chanting "Death to Whitey" on tape with a raised fist, etc) he should survive this as is. It's going to hurt him and probably have an effect even in November, but it's not going to sink his campaign or anything.

Continuing to take this on aggressively is a real risk. There's always to risk of coming across "wrong" which would compound everything. But the most likely case is an unremarkable speech that does little good or harm. Which does nothing else but keep this story in the news for at least another week to Obama's detriment.

So he's really banking on not even just a "decent" speech but something real defining. It's a bit like Babe Ruth calling his shot, which I find "ballsy".

But for reference, I always appreciate guts :hihi:

If he can make THE HISTORIC speech of all speeches that addresses race and America and the speech appeals to and touches ALL Americans, then his approval will go out the roof. Can he do it? The only way he can IMO is if this truly comes from his heart and he shows that. A political speech will not cut it.
 
Who cares what you or I think? Let's see the impact of Wright on voters.

Source: http://www.myfoxkc.com/myfox/pages/...=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.11.1

After viewing the video, are you more likely or less likely to support Senator Barack Obama?
<table border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="5" width="500"><tbody><tr><td>
</td><td>Democrats</td><td>Republicans</td><td>Independents</td></tr><tr><td>More likely</td><td>19%</td><td>7%</td><td>18%</td></tr><tr><td>Less likely</td><td>52%</td><td>71%</td><td>54%</td></tr><tr><td>Don’t know</td><td>28%</td><td>22%</td><td>29%</td></tr></tbody></table>
Do you think Barack Obama’s religious ties will to Jeremiah Wright will help or hurt his campaign efforts?
Prior to viewing the video segments:
<table border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="5" width="500"><tbody><tr><td>
</td><td>Democrats</td><td>Republicans</td><td>Independents</td></tr><tr><td>Help</td><td>6%</td><td>2%</td><td>5%</td></tr><tr><td>Hurt</td><td>64%</td><td>71%</td><td>65%</td></tr><tr><td>Don’t know</td><td>30%</td><td>27%</td><td>30%</td></tr></tbody></table>
After viewing the video segments:
<table border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="5" width="500"><tbody><tr><td>
</td><td>Democrats</td><td>Republicans</td><td>Independents</td></tr><tr><td>Help</td><td>7%</td><td>6%</td><td>9%</td></tr><tr><td>Hurt</td><td>77%</td><td>84%</td><td>78%</td></tr><tr><td>Don’t know</td><td>16%</td><td>10%</td><td>14%</td></tr></tbody></table>

Wow! That's interesting. I wouldn't have thought the numbers would be that high. However, I have read quite a few posts on other sites from voters that wish they could take back their Obama vote.
 
I haven't listened to the speeches, but I've heard both liberals and conservatives discussing what he said, and have read many of the comments on this thread, and my impression is that Mr. Wright has a history of making inflamatory comments. I know that if I were a member of a church who's pastor regularly inflamed people, and I didn't agree with his rhetoric, I would change my church. I've heard people say that Oprah Winfrey was a member of the church, but she disagreed with their views, so she changed. I respect that, and if Obama had changed churches, then I'd respect that too.

Before this incident, I was leaning towards Obama, but I'm now leaning towards Clinton. I generally like her views anyway, but I liked Obama's demeanor, and his views were so close to Clinton's, that that was enough for me to support him. Obama's wife's comments suggested to me that she wouldn't be a great role model, however Obama's perceived strength of character and demeanor still swayed me.

The only chance Obama has to get me back is to face this issue. If he doesn't, the Republicans will make it a campaign issue, and it will bury him. I think Obama's time will have to wait. It will give him time to re-build his reputation. Also, he needs to change churches, but doing it now will do no good. It'll have to happen after he's lost this race.
 

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