Be Patient With Reggie (stat comparison) (1 Viewer)

[da nite tripper]

However, in light of his poor performance with football in hand, some amongst us are overexaggerating the "he opens everything else up" bit. You're not gonna sit here and tell me that the only reason that big plays have occured is because of #25's being on the field. You're not. You're not.

First off, I agree he has some flaws right now. Particularly, the impatience he's shown as a back and his eagerness to take the ball outside. But I'd like to make 2 responses to the above quote. "With football in hand", Reggie's made quite a few plays, not as a RB per se, but plays that got first downs, influenced field position and won a game.

And you're partially correct that I won't tell you that big plays have ONLY occurred b/c of #25. But with that in mind, you can't tell me that his being on the field hasn't contributed to opening up the offense and buying time for Brees. Per example, check out Devery's 1st TD in the Bucs game (at least I think it was his first). From the end zone camera angle, you'll see that Reggie goes wide on a fake sweep to the leftside and the whole defense bit, thus creating the seam for Devery. That, my friend, is fact.

Criticizing players is fair game, but look at the whole of the contribution.

 

[Danchrism]

And again, I didn't say that he doesn't help out sometimes - others on this board have painted the picture so as to state "Bush is on the field, we make a big play, therefore the big play only happened because, and will happen when, Bush is on the field."

I choose the words I write with care and for a reason. Read them.

 

[superchuck500]

I always intended on giving Bush 3 years before annointing Bush as anything. Just as any other high pick. I was merely pointing out that patience with Tiki & Westbrook was to be expected, and we aren't seeing what would justity passing on another 1st & 3rd thus far.

I've detailed in other threads basic running skills that seem to be lacking thus far with Bush. When people proposed what I felt to be excuses, I responded.

Yeah, I hear ya. I agree that we haven't seen the running skills yet either. But my attitude at this point is patience- relying on Reggie's talent, work ethic and coaching for him to come around, like others like Tiki have done. Which was kind of what I said in the original post.

But definitely not making excuses- you're right about that. I still think his presence on the field makes the Saints better. Because regardless of how well he runs between the tackles- if he gets the ball in open space (whether by handoff, pitch or pass) he's gone, and defenses are obliged to respect that. We haven't seen get that kind of space yet because defenses ARE focusing that much on him- in my opinion. But when he gets that kind of space, it's going to be a big gain. Either way, he still needs a lot of work in traditional rushing- and we need, for now at least, to be very patient.

 

[SaintsinOki]

The guy is great and adds to the total team everywhere he can. I am sure he would like to up his stats, but for now, he is adding to the most important stat. WINS. Eventually a team will not prepare for him and they will pay the price. Every def. coord. is throwing everything to include the kitchen sink at Bush. As long as this happens, Payton and Brees will reconize and keep adjusting. As soon it opens up for Bush, he will be the man. Look at the game Deuce had and no one is doubting him. TB "D" was shutting down the run all day long. If you have given up on Bush, I wish you were a "D" coord. for an opposing team.

 

[Danchrism]

Deuce has sesasons of proven ability at the NFL level.

I agree that calling Bush a bust, or flat-out bashing him, is premature at this point. He's doing his role, Deuce/Horn/Colston/Brees/whomever are all doing their roles... it's all shaping up well for us. Let's keep the props where they belong, and that's with the whole team. If Bush were sucking in defenders and Brees was underthrowing receivers, and we were losing games, then yeah... give him props and forget everyone else.

 

[dninc]

I never said no good came out of Bush. However, in light of his poor performance with football in hand, some amongst us are overexaggerating the "he opens everything else up" bit. You're not gonna sit here and tell me that the only reason that big plays have occured is because of #25's being on the field. You're not. You're not.

No he's not the 0nly reason big plays has occured, he's the reason we can make "CONSISTANT" Big plays, he's an "OPTION", if one thing don't work Reggie "being the SUPER STAR" can cause confusion for other teams that gameplanned for him, Reggie can also produce positive yardage if we had a quick enough OL to protect the run for him, it's Sad watching him beat his own team players, but it's also his fault for not "probably" kinda slowing it down a tad and wait for possible holes like Duece does, I also am starting to get a tad bit aggrovated with his E-W zig zaging which give time for the Defense to figure out where he's at,who's got the ball and attack, when he gets the ball he has less than 2 seconds before Defensive players figure it out, that means he has 2 seconds to gain Positive yardage or he's going to lose yards each time, he don't have time to find a opening of his liking, thats my only problem with him, Of course Duece has turned himself into a Tank and will Bust through a Line nowadays.

Too many people are trying to shove bush under the bus, "not just you" i know of a few others that wished things would have went "They're" way in the drafts and now those people are trying to post " Na na na I told you so" post and it's getting to the point where Fans have to Defend they're team players against other fans, it's a little fustrating with everybody having Differences on What the Drafts should have looked like and some saying it was Brilliant.

 

[mac504]

Shaq drew attention in the Finals and made everyones job easier.Yet Dwayne Wade won the Finals MVP.Why?Because he carried the load and did the hard work of actually scoring the ball.

Steve Kerr had to ALWAYS be accounted for when playing for the Bulls and Spurs because of his 3 point shooting.Yet Jordan and Duncan got the MVPs and props.


Why is reggie getting Jordan type props when he should be getting Steve Kerr type props?

 

[Pure Energy]

A point of clarification: The saying is "Throw under the bus." It's not "throw on the bus" or "shove under the bus."

Now back to your regularly scheduled debate.

 

[NWSaint]

Patience with Reggie...............DEFINETLY!!
& not meant in any kind of negative way either.. In fact I can't
wait for #25 to have that breakout game where everyone in the
media that's let'n him have it right now can breakout their knee-
pads and let the slobbing commence.. LoL!! Seriously though, this
reminds me of when Ricky was the Saints saviour and Has turned
right around after the demise of Ditka and drafted Deuce.. & while
Deuce didn't have the same expectations placed on him as Reggie
might, the fact is there were '2' quality backs with the Saints at
the same time.. I'm not saying this is gonna be an issue, because
it won't be, but what I ams saying is Deuce is one helluva mentor
for the young man from SC.. I'm sure as time goes on (and another
camp) that Reggie will learn a LOT from Deuce, such as patience in
finding a hole & not dancing around trying to find one.. Reggies' time
will come.. he didn't do what he did at SC by accident, he's a very
special athlete with unreal skills (see the Titans cutback run).. So as
a slight comparision think of this...

Deuces' rookie year stats-

He carried 16 times for 91 yards and 1 TD with Ricky being the feature
back.. But what stood out most of all to me was his deceptive speed
as a k/r man.. I had the chance to see him his rookie year in Seattle,
and the size difference btwn him and Ricky was silly.. Ricky looked like
a friggin' beast , and I remember turning to my girlfriend and saying
something like "this is the guy that's gonna someday replace Ricky??"
Well he was returning kicks like mad that year get'n used to NFL speed,
decision making, awareness, etc.. Deuce ended up with 45 returns for
1.091 yards & a 24.2 avg. that's pretty good for a rookie.. Point here is
he gradually "learned" the NFL whereas Reggie is gradually "learning" the
NFL.. and when he does.....................................WATCH THE HELL OUT!!

Just my .02

NWSaint.

 

[Danchrism]

No he's not the 0nly reason big plays has occured, he's the reason we can make "CONSISTANT" Big plays, he's an "OPTION", if one thing don't work Reggie "being the SUPER STAR" can cause confusion for other teams that gameplanned for him, Reggie can also produce positive yardage if we had a quick enough OL to protect the run for him, it's Sad watching him beat his own team players, but it's also his fault for not "probably" kinda slowing it down a tad and wait for possible holes like Duece does, I also am starting to get a tad bit aggrovated with his E-W zig zaging which give time for the Defense to figure out where he's at,who's got the ball and attack, when he gets the ball he has less than 2 seconds before Defensive players figure it out, that means he has 2 seconds to gain Positive yardage or he's going to lose yards each time, he don't have time to find a opening of his liking, thats my only problem with him, Of course Duece has turned himself into a Tank and will Bust through a Line nowadays.

Too many people are trying to shove bush under the bus, "not just you" i know of a few others that wished things would have went "They're" way in the drafts and now those people are trying to post " Na na na I told you so" post and it's getting to the point where Fans have to Defend they're team players against other fans, it's a little fustrating with everybody having Differences on What the Drafts should have looked like and some saying it was Brilliant.

Here's the thing, though.

I'm not shoving under, throwing under, forcefully placing near, or dropping a bus on Bush. He's not under any bus I control, I haven't forcefully stricken him, and I've yet to deem him broken or smashed.

Whether the draft went my way or not is out of my control. 'God grant me the serenity...' I'm done debating that. On April 29th, you'd have found me saying "shoulda took Ferguson," however, this is what we have. Let's cheer it on.

This isn't one of those things I'm particularly happy to be right about, especially in the face of the resulting lovefest that followed our taking Bush. Other fans were happy, I tried to cool the jets some, I was called everything but a child of God. I left it alone. I let them talk about how he'd be the next Sanders, Sayers, Faulk, and/or Allen. I didn't believe it, so I offered up the "let's wait and see" corollary. Same result. I've been vilified for it by the casual fan, but more involved fans have mostly felt me. I'll say no more at this point, except...

"Let's wait and see."

 

[CHI-TOWNSAINT]

This isn't one of those things I'm particularly happy to be right about,

"Let's wait and see."

I find it ironic that you you state you were right that Reggie wasn't a good pick , then later in your post you say "let's wait and see".

I think you're confused......

 

[Danchrism]

I'm talking about his skill sets not translating properly.

"Let's wait and see" refers to the people who wanted to crown him the next every-great-running-back-ever-in-NFL-history-rolled-into-one-player before he took to the field. Eight games into the season, "Let's wait and see" looks like it makes more and more sense. Read around here - you find NOW that everyone wants to be down with wait and see. He's just a rookie. Give him time. etc etc etc. These same people would have had me banned from this forum for saying essentially the exact same thing six months ago.

 

[CHI-TOWNSAINT]

Reggie leads the league in third down conversions via the pass. I don't have to wait and see to know that is a huge stat.

So, Reggie hasn't run like we thought he would, we all knew we weren't getting a conventional running back when we drafted him. We knew we were getting a hybrid RB/WR. He has half of that label down pat right now, when he masters the other ,whether that be this year or next, doesn't matter to me because his presence on our team has directly translated into wins. When he gets the Runningback thing down, it will traslate into Superbowls!

He is doing just fine to me!