being progressive and possibly just missing the mark (1 Viewer)

Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
27,863
Reaction score
45,450
Location
a van down by the river
Offline
so I did not put this in the SSF thread because I thought I would get higher quality response over here. This is about the Male dancer though.

First of all, I am happy for anyone that is fulfilling a dream so this is not about this young man. Kudos to him.

But there is something that just feels slightly odd about it. While I agree that the sexualization in sports probably is due to change, is this the best route? I mean, the choreography and outfits are all designed for women. And if part of your goal is equality then what about the fan base. A large majority of that is women. Are any of them actually going to find this appealing? I realize he won't be wearing a tutu but it will still have to not stand out like a sore thumb. And the dance moves will be decidedly feminine I am sure.

Would a better aim be to just scrap the practice all together or maybe overhaul it with more even numbers and new dances and outfits to reflect that.

In a similar line of thought take Hooters (which sucks but you don't even have to go beyond the food for that conclusion) Should anyone be able to get a job there? Yes I think so. But if they hire an extremely large woman is that outfit going to be flattering on her? Of course not. Maybe it would be better to get rid of the outfits.

I am prepared to take heat for this post and maybe rightfully so. While I am progressive in most ways there is still a little dude who was born in the 70s in me. I am all for the progress but seems like the small tweak approach lacks something to be desired. And I am honestly posting with an open mind hoping someone can bring me to the light
 

yes, definitely. I am aware that your ideas will probably be better developed since it hits closer to home. I don't think that we will disagree that a change is a good thing but I am just not sure about this particular approach. Scrap the dance team, replace it with one made of of similar numbers of both sexes and let the dances and dress reflect the change.

Or its just the old fashioned in me trying to justify resistance.

and I think the 610 Stompers are awesome. But that is a clear parody (FLOABT), light-hearted and fun. Is that the real goal here?
 
1st a bit of history
in europe "concert" dance evolved out of court dance (which was often a gussied up version of folk dance)
Louis the XVI was the one who really pushed dance as performance in his performance as "Sun King" (this is where "ballet" begins)
for the 1st 100 years only boys do ballet (it was used to teach boys fencing among other things - and that's kind of where the position of the feet and arms come from)
eventually (19th century) concert dance devolves (some might say evolves) into essentially what stripping is today -girls would dance cancan and the like and hope 'stage door johnnys' would come and "sponsor them"
in Russia, US, Germany and Italy there were separate movements that reclaimed dance as an art form (but in US an western europe "exotic" dancing remained)
in US dance was still primarily a woman's pursuit but in russia (both pre and post revolution) it was a bit more evenly split
not too surprisingly, in the US, even though dancers were mostly women - most of the major teachers and choreographers (in modern, ballet and jazz) were men

a note, most anything that can be cautioned about gender and dance, has already been trotted out with race and dance
george balanchine (a russian emigre) and founder of NYCBallet put the first black dancer (Arthur Mitchell) on a ballet stage in '55, but Misty Copeland became the 1st black prima about a decade or so ago
 
It was pointed out that he's not the first male dancer in the NFL and the Saintsations have a current complaint in regard to sex and standards. Reading a but about the guy shows that he clearly knows how to dance at a high level. As long as it's was a legit competition, I see no problem with a guy dancing.
 
yes, definitely. I am aware that your ideas will probably be better developed since it hits closer to home. I don't think that we will disagree that a change is a good thing but I am just not sure about this particular approach. Scrap the dance team, replace it with one made of of similar numbers of both sexes and let the dances and dress reflect the change.

Or its just the old fashioned in me trying to justify resistance.

and I think the 610 Stompers are awesome. But that is a clear parody (FLOABT), light-hearted and fun. Is that the real goal here?
ok, now that's out of the way, let's get to the heart of this
there's no reason to conflate this hire with the larger political/cultural issue around dance teams (like implying that since there is a lot of drug use in strip clubs then women shouldn't be allowed to do what they want with their bodies)

we can just as easily speculate that Jesse got the job b/c he was one of the 32 (if that's the number) best dancers
there's also no reason to conflate gender and "sexuality"
plenty of men can dance more femme than plenty of women and plenty of women can dance more butch (think aggressive hip hop) than plenty of men

paradoxically, the inclusion of a man on the team could actually refocus the emphasis on DANCE more than PRANCE
and it might have the result of encouraging families to let their daughters go to saintsation camps b/c it's seen as more than just hooker training
 
we can just as easily speculate that Jesse got the job b/c he was one of the 32 (if that's the number) best dancers

I don't have any problem with that. In fact, I kind of imagine that he probably can out-dance the majority if not all of the girls, even among those that made it.


paradoxically, the inclusion of a man on the team could actually refocus the emphasis on DANCE more than PRANCE
and it might have the result of encouraging families to let their daughters go to saintsation camps b/c it's seen as more than just hooker training

now you are talking about a consideration I had not had and that is more the point of the thread. I agree that we would all benefit from less PRANCE

what about the appeal to the larger audience. Will women like this for more than just appreciation of his skill? Or is this just extending what it was before - eye candy for men. Just because it might appeal to yet another group of men doesn't mean that it had the highest end goal.
 
I think the vast majority of females at the game won't care that he's amongst other females performing feminine dance moves. With that being said, let's bring on more male dancers to balance things out a bit for the women in the crowd. I think it's only common sense.
 
I was actually a fan of the cheerleaders back in the day. Not that I really have a problem with dance but the variety that is being offered doesn't not reflect the skill level those cheerleaders had IMO. And there was nothing femme about those guys so I am sure there were a large number of women who actually appreciated them as well.
 
1. I hope they didnt make a mistake in releasing his full name.
2. Hooters is a national treasure.
3. This thread would have been more entertaining on the SSF.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Users who are viewing this thread

    Back
    Top Bottom