Black Coaches in the NFL (Mod Edit: Moved to EE due to widening discussion) (1 Viewer)

[evilsaint]

...

Shell was a HC in OAK for 6 seasons...
Green for 10 in Minny...
Dungy for 13 in Tampa....
Lewis for 15 in CIN....
Lovie for 9 with the Bears...

So, 37 out of a potential what, 1500? Seems legit...

 

[Semper]

So, 37 out of a potential what, 1500? Seems legit...

Agree. How do we fix it? Has it gotten better? Worse? Personally when I was a kid I never saw a black QB in the NFL. That has changed and continues to evolve. In my 53 years I have seen a lot of change for the better. It won’t happen over night. Is it happening fast enough that seems to be a matter of perspective. If I am a black man my guess is no it isn’t. As a white man I see it happening but I recognize it could be faster. A racist might say it’s happening too fast.

 

[rajncajn]

Personally when I was a kid I never saw a black QB in the NFL.

You would have been 8 or 9 at the time Doug Williams was drafted and 19 when he won the Superbowl, 14 when Warren Moon came to the NFL & 16 when Randall Cunningham was drafted.

 

[SonOfNOLA]

@SonOfNOLA do you have anything to add to the conversation other than a picture? Did you dislike the entire post or parts of it? Personally the reactionary faces don’t really affect me. What affects me is the laziness of not articulating what a person disagrees with. But hey if that’s all you’re capable of I will accept it. Personally I believe in you. You can do better, you got this man..

It’s not the same at all when a white person says that they want a white coach in the whitest city to be HC versus when a black person says a black HC would be cool to have in a city whose culture is originated by the black community from N.O. and adopted by other races as their own culture. White populations have always and continue to majorly held positions of power in in the U.S., many times in racist regard. Racism is when one race creates systemic disadvantages against another race or minority communities, in law, economics, employment, etc. Knowing what racism actually is in government and administration, a minority saying that it would be cool to see a qualified HC who looks like them isn’t racism against the race who continue to be entrenched in positions of power and has social-economical advantages.

Understanding that people of color have experienced disenfranchising, oppressive, and unfair treatment in society by white groups, and continue to during hiring processes, is why I think a person of color would say it would be merely cool to see. That doesn’t mean that they want the HC to be selected based on their color. There’s little representation of black coaches at the professional NFL level, while many are qualified to be. The sentiment is in reference to inspiration and cultural community empowerment for minorities to see a person who resembles them running a team on the field knowing the past and current struggles against their communities.

No coach should ever be selected based on skin color, regardless if they’re indigenous/black or white. It’s important to also not just dismiss or compare, a black person saying something versus a white person saying something, out of spite or contrary, when there’s no logical comparison. It’s easy to see why POC would want to see another qualified minority to be HC based on past struggles against racism in professional hiring and past systemic oppression against black people in Louisiana and the south in general. I don’t think the original comment is saying that they want the HC to be black, but that it’d be cool to see on their hometown team in a league thats predominately white in Front Office-Head Coach positions.

 

[Semper]

You would have been 8 or 9 at the time Doug Williams was drafted and 19 when he won the Superbowl, 14 when Warren Moon came to the NFL & 16 when Randall Cunningham was drafted.

Sounds about right. The only team I watched as a kid was the Saints. My family was pretty poor and we didn’t have cable until the mid to late 80’s. If the Saints were not on I didn’t watch. My statement was more of a generalization.

 

[Semper]

It’s not the same at all when a white person says that they want a white coach in the whitest city to be HC versus when a black person says a black HC would be cool to have in a city whose culture is originated by the black community from N.O. and adopted by other races as their own culture. White populations have always and continue to majorly held positions of power in in the U.S., many times in racist regard. Racism is when one race creates systemic disadvantages against another race or minority communities, in law, economics, employment, etc. Knowing what racism actually is in government and administration, a minority saying that it would be cool to see a qualified HC who looks like them isn’t racism against the race who continue to be entrenched in positions of power and has social-economical advantages.

Understanding that people of color have experienced disenfranchising, oppressive, and unfair treatment in society by white groups, and continue to during hiring processes, is why I think a person of color would say it would be merely cool to see. That doesn’t mean that they want the HC to be selected based on their color. There’s little representation of black coaches at the professional NFL level, while many are qualified to be. The sentiment is in reference to inspiration and cultural community empowerment for minorities to see a person who resembles them running a team on the field knowing the past and current struggles against their communities.

No coach should ever be selected based on skin color, regardless if they’re indigenous/black or white. It’s important to also not just dismiss or compare, a black person saying something versus a white person saying something, out of spite or contrary, when there’s no logical comparison. It’s easy to see why POC would want to see another qualified minority to be HC based on past struggles against racism in professional hiring and past systemic oppression against black people in Louisiana and the south in general. I don’t think the original comment is saying that they want the HC to be black, but that it’d be cool to see on their hometown team in a league thats predominately white in Front Office-Head Coach positions.

Great post! Thank you for your insight. I would also add I do get it. Representation has to be huge for a black person in New Orleans, similar to why I said about the elf in the LotR show earlier.

 

[SweetT]

If you see things in black and white, regardless of the side of the aisle you land on, you are part of the problem. Just like Todd Bowles said recently, when people stop making race and issue, it wont be any issue anymore. Stuff like this just gives it life.

Todd Bowles made that comment bc the reporter asked a REALLY REALLY stupid question regarding race. Go back and listen to the question. It was very insulting and he answered that question beautifully

 

[Optimus Prime]

Unfortunately it seems everything in this country is about race now. And you know what maybe it’s deserved. When I was watching the Lord of the Rings show at first I was wondering why did they have to make the elf black? Never seen that before. Then I thought maybe some kid seeing someone that looked like him or her on tv was important to have representation in a genre that they like. Same with the Marvel movies.

I do want to thank you recognizing that representation matters and is important. And something as seemingly minor as a black elf on a fantasy show can change a kid's entire outlook

You also mentioned that you wondered why the elf was black. now you didn't say it made you mad or uncomfortable (plenty of people have commented how outraged it made them online)

I don't mean to call you or put you on the spot at all, you've made genuinely insightful and curious posts on this in the past.

But this "why did they have to make the elf black". is, if not dangerous, condescending

Because whenever there is black person in any space or position where "Never seen that before" the assumption is someone decided 'we need to make the ______ black' then it becomes a PC hire, or an affirmative action hire, a BLM hire, a check the box hire. That the person may be the best person for the job doesn't seem to be considered. it becomes a matter of "have to"

This is what happened with the Little Mermaid. Disney has since come out and said that there was an open casting call with who knows how many young women after the role. Disney said that Hailey's audition was the best. But people didn't accept that, didn't accept that it was possible (and these are the same people who always claim to just want the best person, regardless of race)

 

[cbord12]

I do want to thank you recognizing that representation matters and is important. And something as seemingly minor as a black elf on a fantasy show can change a kid's entire outlook

You also mentioned that you wondered why the elf was black. now you didn't say it made you mad or uncomfortable (plenty of people have commented how outraged it made them online)

I don't mean to call you or put you on the spot at all, you've made genuinely insightful and curious posts on this in the past.

But this "why did they have to make the elf black". is, if not dangerous, condescending

Because whenever there is black person in any space or position where "Never seen that before" the assumption is someone decided 'we need to make the ______ black' then it becomes a PC hire, or an affirmative action hire, a BLM hire, a check the box hire. That the person may be the best person for the job doesn't seem to be considered. it becomes a matter of "have to"

This is what happened with the Little Mermaid. Disney has since come out and said that there was an open casting call with who knows how many young women after the role. Disney said that Hailey's audition was the best. But people didn't accept that, didn't accept that it was possible (and these are the same people who always claim to just want the best person, regardless of race)

What are you talking about The Little Mermaid. Completely different. The little mermaid was a red headed white mermaid. Plain and simple. The reason for people being upset is Disney forced diversity. Imagine if roles were reversed. The race card goes both ways.

Representation in numbers. Do you not think the NFL athlete, coaches, GMs are not represented enough? The black population is 12.5% compared to whites at 72%. Over 25% of GMs are black, 5/32 (16%) HCs are black, 12/32 (38%) defensive coordinators, and 5/32 (16%) offensive coordinators. How is the black population not represented? Just based off population numbers they have higher representation than population.

Everything is about inclusion nowadays. Its not about best candidates anymore in any business. Its a silly argument to bring up race in sports and anything being unfair.

 

[cbord12]

I do want to thank you recognizing that representation matters and is important. And something as seemingly minor as a black elf on a fantasy show can change a kid's entire outlook

You also mentioned that you wondered why the elf was black. now you didn't say it made you mad or uncomfortable (plenty of people have commented how outraged it made them online)

I don't mean to call you or put you on the spot at all, you've made genuinely insightful and curious posts on this in the past.

But this "why did they have to make the elf black". is, if not dangerous, condescending

Because whenever there is black person in any space or position where "Never seen that before" the assumption is someone decided 'we need to make the ______ black' then it becomes a PC hire, or an affirmative action hire, a BLM hire, a check the box hire. That the person may be the best person for the job doesn't seem to be considered. it becomes a matter of "have to"

This is what happened with the Little Mermaid. Disney has since come out and said that there was an open casting call with who knows how many young women after the role. Disney said that Hailey's audition was the best. But people didn't accept that, didn't accept that it was possible (and these are the same people who always claim to just want the best person, regardless of race)

I do agree with your Elf comment though. People have the right to identify with their won race and not be persecuted for it.

 

[Semper]

I do want to thank you recognizing that representation matters and is important. And something as seemingly minor as a black elf on a fantasy show can change a kid's entire outlook

You also mentioned that you wondered why the elf was black. now you didn't say it made you mad or uncomfortable (plenty of people have commented how outraged it made them online)

I don't mean to call you or put you on the spot at all, you've made genuinely insightful and curious posts on this in the past.

But this "why did they have to make the elf black". is, if not dangerous, condescending

Because whenever there is black person in any space or position where "Never seen that before" the assumption is someone decided 'we need to make the ______ black' then it becomes a PC hire, or an affirmative action hire, a BLM hire, a check the box hire. That the person may be the best person for the job doesn't seem to be considered. it becomes a matter of "have to"

This is what happened with the Little Mermaid. Disney has since come out and said that there was an open casting call with who knows how many young women after the role. Disney said that Hailey's audition was the best. But people didn't accept that, didn't accept that it was possible (and these are the same people who always claim to just want the best person, regardless of race)

With the elf thing it’s only because as a fan of this genre I don’t recall ever seeing it. If anything it was a thought provoking moment.

 

[HoustonSaint68]

Big part is reading these comments? My point in saying that was clearly stated in the opening line. I said that incase I repeated thoughts of others.

No. It's NOT reading others' comments and mentally marinating a bit on the progression of the conversation before charging in with a strong opinion on a charged subject. Certainly, I live in a glass house here occasionally but that doesn't make 'posting before considering' any less of a problem here.

There are a lot of smart people on this board and we would all be better served as an online community if ALL OF US listened and thought a bit more before posting responses, and also if we avoided ascribing bad motives to posters whose faces we aren't looking at as they make their points. Myself included.

 

[HoustonSaint68]

It’s easy to see why POC would want to see another qualified minority to be HC based on past struggles against racism in professional hiring and past systemic oppression against black people in Louisiana and the south in general.

Great post altogether but just a nitpicking point here: I think the NFL problem today is more akin to the more general historical situation in the north rather than the south.

I've got a lot of grey hair so my experience is dated, but over the years I've had many multiple friends and aquaintances in the corporate world tell me some version of "I'm a lot more comfortable back down south -- at least there I know who the racists are".

 

[HoustonSaint68]

Todd Bowles made that comment bc the reporter asked a REALLY REALLY stupid question regarding race. Go back and listen to the question. It was very insulting and he answered that question beautifully

Great point -- thanks for that clarification. Here is a clip I found...it stands on its own without the commentary on the end but posting it for reference in any case....

 

[UptownSaintsFan]

What are you talking about The Little Mermaid. Completely different. The little mermaid was a red headed white mermaid. Plain and simple. The reason for people being upset is Disney forced diversity. Imagine if roles were reversed. The race card goes both ways.

Representation in numbers. Do you not think the NFL athlete, coaches, GMs are not represented enough? The black population is 12.5% compared to whites at 72%. Over 25% of GMs are black, 5/32 (16%) HCs are black, 12/32 (38%) defensive coordinators, and 5/32 (16%) offensive coordinators. How is the black population not represented? Just based off population numbers they have higher representation than population.

Everything is about inclusion nowadays. Its not about best candidates anymore in any business. Its a silly argument to bring up race in sports and anything being unfair.

Wow, what an amazingly bad take after reading Optimus's well thought out post.