Black Monday (1 Viewer)

[cpg]

Johnson has done a good job developing some young guys. I don't mind him staying around.

 

[El Caliente]

Only way your getting rid of those guys is if you get rid of Payton...

And there isn't your 7-9 season again and again ad nausea.

 

[sportsaint]

I've just been wondering with the rumors, even from glazer, that if Payton has been planning all along to move on, would we get am announcement by say Wednesday?

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[Eman5805]

McMahon is a given. But why Bill Johnson? Our defensive line doesn't lack for coaching. It lacks for athleticism and length off the edge. Cam Jordan is great, but he's not beating people around the edge with speed. He's getting leverage and great strength. Give our young guys Rankins and Oneyemata an offseason to get stronger and better conditioned and who knows how great our interior line can be.

Not sure why Johnson's name comes up. I guess Vitt has to go for catharsis reasons too. He's not even the listed linebackers coach anymore, but whatever.

 

[El Caliente]

I only put Johnsons name out there because we can't get a pass rush. I am not expecting huge changes to our bottom tier defensive coaching staff, and I am not sold on injuries being our only problem on defense.

 

[Dan in Lafayette]

Who thinks there is an announcement from the Saints on Monday of a move at the coaching position?

Jason La Confora

 

[sportsaint]

If Payton doesn't leave, I wonder if Payton will finally let McMahon go?

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[TribuneUK]

Not enough threads about Payton speculation already, obviously...

 

[Zanedavis1]

Lets face it, No one that needs to be gone will be gone. McMahon and Vitt will sit comfy. I hope I eat my words... but time shows these guys are nearly unfireable for some convoluted un-solveable reason

 

[HouseCall]

Lets face it, No one that needs to be gone will be gone. McMahon and Vitt will sit comfy. I hope I eat my words... but time shows these guys are nearly unfireable for some convoluted un-solveable reason

The theoretical answer to this question is very layered and involves a lot of speculation.

There are a core group of coaches with whom Payton is fiercely loyal. We know the names and the criticisms. Some of the outright refusal to part with these coaches is just that, fierce loyalty- specifically McMahon who was a former coach of Payton's. However, we also know that there might be other, less savory reasons why Payton keeps some of these coaches safely entrenched on the staff.

Payton is a genius offensive coach and prior to 2012 was a fierce motivator but Payton is "speculated" to have some personal demons that have compromised his family life and his ability to manage his staff with impunity.

Payton and Joe Vitt were allegedly linked to the theft of Vicodin from the team medical training room several years ago. Say what you will about that saga but I firmly believe that Payton and Vitt are a codependent pairing. Vitt is the seasoned vet who knows how to get Payton anything he needs and Payton provides him with unlimited employment.

Payton and Vitt appear to be a package deal. Vitt was even chosen to be our interim coach in 2012 despite the fact that he too was facing a suspension for the bountygate crapola. I don't know what the connection Bill Johnson has to anything in Payton's personal life or why he's never held accountable for his unit's underperformance. There has to be a reason that goes beyond football.

Anyway, Payton has thrown his lot in with these guys. His fate will be the same as theirs so unless he is leaving, I expect them all back next season and I expect minimal departure from the current 7-9 trend.

I'm not saying that these guys are bad coaches but there definitely seems to be a stagnation on this team.

This is all just my opinion, of course. I could be very wrong. But I do know one thing -- if nothing changes, don't expect the end product to change.

 

[Crawdaddys]

Denver is the only place that I could see as a possibility. I could see Elway offering up Paxton Lynch, 2 1st rounders and a third for Payton and Brees. Hope I'm wrong though.

 

[Domeination]

Payton deserves another year, but the horrific ST and awful D and losing seasons have to stop.

 

[blackadder]

The theoretical answer to this question is very layered and involves a lot of speculation.

There are a core group of coaches with whom Payton is fiercely loyal. We know the names and the criticisms. Some of the outright refusal to part with these coaches is just that, fierce loyalty- specifically McMahon who was a former coach of Payton's. However, we also know that there might be other, less savory reasons why Payton keeps some of these coaches safely entrenched on the staff.

Payton is a genius offensive coach and prior to 2012 was a fierce motivator but Payton is "speculated" to have some personal demons that have compromised his family life and his ability to manage his staff with impunity.

Payton and Joe Vitt were allegedly linked to the theft of Vicodin from the team medical training room several years ago. Say what you will about that saga but I firmly believe that Payton and Vitt are a codependent pairing. Vitt is the seasoned vet who knows how to get Payton anything he needs and Payton provides him with unlimited employment.

Payton and Vitt appear to be a package deal. Vitt was even chosen to be our interim coach in 2012 despite the fact that he too was facing a suspension for the bountygate crapola. I don't know what the connection Bill Johnson has to anything in Payton's personal life or why he's never held accountable for his unit's underperformance. There has to be a reason that goes beyond football.

Anyway, Payton has thrown his lot in with these guys. His fate will be the same as theirs so unless he is leaving, I expect them all back next season and I expect minimal departure from the current 7-9 trend.

I'm not saying that these guys are bad coaches but there definitely seems to be a stagnation on this team.

This is all just my opinion, of course. I could be very wrong. But I do know one thing -- if nothing changes, don't expect the end product to change.

Sometimes the whole is less than the sum of the parts and that is Paytons staff.

If Payton is listening to Vitt on evaluations and needs on defense over the years then we see the result, which is why Vitts name Keeps coming up. We know that Vitt was Payton's snitch in the defensive meeting rooms when GW was here and Payton was contractually barred from meddling in the defense.

 

[NUSaintsfan]

Payton will stay, but he needs to do what he did earlier in his tenure with coaches that didn't perform- cut bait!

Get more talent (instincts, speed, and athleticism) on defense and get a new ST coach and 2017 could be extremely solid for the organization and us as fans. It was obvious some of the schemes didn't fit in the defense, but if the team can improve upon its rankings this coming season (into the teens) then we are talking playoffs rather than speculating.

Accountability needs to be had up and down the chain both in players and position coaches. How a ST coach can't have his guys ready to play each and every week, especially considering most ST players aren't front line starters, is beyond me. How he can maintain a job after being directly responsible for three losses will be amazing. I understand the players execute but as coaches you have to prepare and prepare some more.

 

[2009ring]

If McMahon isn't fired I don't see anything changing.

The only thing that gives me hope is that he brought in the "special teams assistant" or whatever mid-year kind of like he did with Dennis Allen prior to canning Rob Ryan.