Brees Apologizes [merged] (1 Viewer)

Complete deadlock in polarization.

That's where we are.

I think social media makes it all worse, amplifies everything. Makes everyone think they should inject. Way more heat than light.

I feel worse about the future every day.




I dont feel worse about the future, becuase eventually all the closed-minded old ****s that are my age and older will die off, and each generation gets progressively more open-minded and accepting of differences.
 
This is an incredibly frustrating time, but the underlying contradictions and obstacles are always there.

On the flag I think Drew takes it to an extreme as many do.

The problem with elevating the flag to this level of unquestioning reverence is that it allows bad people and bad institutions to hide behind the flag. "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel". Here I refer to things like the Iraq war but it could be any number of things where bad people misuse the flag and cynically exploit patriotism for an agenda.

This is all a discussion for another day, but nationally on so many levels we are trapped in a quagmire of contradictions, propaganda, faulty conventional wisdom and outmoded thinking, and there is no clean way out. And to me this is across the board in America. every community has it's narrative and sacred myths and breaking them all down is going to be ugly if it can even be done. But no one should be spared.

I look around at all sides and I feel too often that everyone is wrong or has serious flaws yet all sides just want to point fingers and lay total blame or play victim. I mean...Trump..."Let's send in the military"...Biden..."let's just shoot them in the leg". The latter is the iron fist in a velvet glove and this is the left opposition??? Lol.

All that said I also see no reason for people to go out of their way to put the flag or the anthem at the center of a protest. I get you want to maximize attention but if you understand your nation and it's history and mindset to focus on the flag and the anthem or generalize to all police obviously invites emotional reactions like Drew's and creates more division. From one angle that is probably the goal, to make people uncomfortable and shake things up. Mission accomplished.

I unplugged from a lot of this years ago because because I can not change it. Sooner or later anything you want to change runs up against very emotional ideas that get to identity and purpose in life and any human digs in when their fundamental world view is threatened.

I had a complex upbringing in New Orleans and New Orleans is complex place racially and culturally so I often feel I have perspective that is not useful out in broader America, but all I know is we have a lot of deep problems in America that cut across communities and I personally can not impact more than the people I encounter, so that is what I focus on. We have problems internally, we have a rotten political system, we have demented priorities in how we collect and spend our taxes, we have serious problems in how we lecture and meddle out in the world, we have an economy addicted to debt and the abuse of the dollar's reserve status to live beyond our means (and that can't go on forever).

It's so complicated, inter-related and systemic that it is all overwhelming and I have no answers but to impact those immediately around me.

Am I patriot though?

I think so because I want to recognize and address the problems so things get better and children have a future.

Others will argue I am not because this is America and we are the greatest and serious problems do not compute. Wave the flag, cheer, utter some platitudes and all is fixed.

And that takes me back to the point on identity.

The cultivated (and flawed IMO) narratives of American 'exceptionalism' and a sacred role of managing the World have put the flag at the center of the very identity of a lot of people in this country and that becomes a barrier to any understanding. The moment you challenge the flag with a protest you will lose them because that flag has been programmed in as a center of their very identity and any challenge is viewed as a personal attack.
I know I was required to recite the pledge of allegiance in elementary school. To your point, both political parties prefer division. If we are divided and devoted to our group, we don't see the hand reaching in our pockets or the laws put in place to keep us in line to the politicians benefit. Case and point, "Hillary is going to prison", but as soon as Trump was sworn in they were sitting next to each other laughing and smiling all hunky dory. That is a strange sequence of events. Totally unrelated, or is it?
 
OMG - What a classy man. We are so blessed to have Drew lead our team and region. It takes a big man to come out, and without any excuse, apologize for a comment he made.
Swimmer... come on with the "it takes a big man to apologize" stuff. I sincerely accept Drew's apology, but HE HAD NO CHOICE. Otherwise he would have lost the team. Lets not think it is entirely altruistic of him.
 
Respecting the flag is bad!!!!!!!! Too many anti Americans in this country.
Floyd shouldn’t have died and should never ever be treated the way he did. However Floyd had fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system at the time of his death, although the drugs are not listed as the cause.
Who knows if that caused the cops response etc.
 
Based on his hardline stance since 2017, I didn't know if we'd ever get an apology like this, but I think Colston and Jenkins really got his attention and forced him to look at things differently.

People of privilege all start from somewhere on this issue. This was a good first step, Drew.
He has knelt, just not during the anthem.

I again don't have answers because things are so polarized.

But from a standpoint of bridging gaps and increasing understanding I think you have to look for the middle ground. The flag becomes emotional and choosing the anthem as the focal point instantly divides and creates more heat than light.
Good thoughts. My preference is to remove politics from sports altogether and let players do that on their own time, even if it is together as a team, just not on the playing field. But, if it must be on the field, why can't they all kneel together before the anthem and then all stand together for the anthem? I think I saw this before? Freedom of speech is a founding principle of this country, and everyone should be free to do it in a peaceful way. Nobody should be shouted down or beat down for their opinion. That is what democracy should be. Just don't do it in sports where you alienate half of the fans. It is a no win proposition in sports in my humble opinion.
I do not disagree.

I've been at the end of my rope with politics and social issues for some time. I would rather athletes and celebrities just sat out of it.

But if the world we live in, if it is finding the middle ground, as I said, clearly it's not a secret that the flag and the personal interpretation of patriotism is a huge social and psychological force in this country. I would argue to take that into account and come up with a middle way to show a unified and public stance that tries to work around that flash point, which I think is what Drew Brees is trying to get at.

But there is such anger, frustration and polarization they want to burn it all down and probably WANT to provoke the heat and emotion as a form of 'progress'. Be careful what you wish for when you light the fires, I guess.

The flag, the perception of identity and patriotism and how you define what an 'American' is lies at the heart of this and to get to the other side peacefully requires working around it. One side wants to preserve some sacred level to a part of it, the other thinks the whole thing should be torn down. In these kinds of struggles there are always enough on either side that want to dig in and burn it down. Always.

So I am back to no answers for the extremes that drive the dialectic, other than to talk through it and try to find a middle way.

Drew Brees needs to hear why you think the protest should be focused on the flag and anthem, but you also need to listen to why he thinks that crosses a line and everybody has to chew on all that. Problem is the polarization and the extremes on each side who are convinced that are the right side.
 
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Maybe this is bigger than football?
The issue itself is bigger than football. However, Brees is one football player. I don't look to Brees for solutions on political issues. I look to Brees for wins on the football field. This is a political issue that Brees has an opinion on. Him changing his opinion one way or the other or apologizing will not change any of issues we face today. That is for the political leaders to deal with.
 
I dont feel worse about the future, becuase eventually all the closed-minded old ****s that are my age and older will die off, and each generation gets progressively more open-minded and accepting of differences.
That's what someone said in 1968 and here we are again.
 
I appreciate his comments. What I think I know about Brees aligns with an interest in getting things right. I expect him to become a better person, a better teammate, and a better American as a result of listening and learning about the reality of injustice in our country.
 
He has knelt, just not during the anthem.

I again don't have answers because things are so polarized.

But from a standpoint of bridging gaps and increasing understanding I think you have to look for the middle ground. The flag becomes emotional and choosing the anthem as the focal point instantly divides and creates more heat than light.
I do not disagree.

I've been at the end of my rope with politics and social issues for some time. I would rather athletes and celebrities just sat out of it.

But if the world we live in, if it is finding the middle ground, as I said, clearly it's not a secret that the flag and the personal interpretation of patriotism is a huge social and psychological force in this country. I would argue to take that into account and come up with a middle way to show a unified and public stance that tries to work around that flash point, which I think is what Drew Brees is trying to get at.

But there is such anger, frustration and polarization they want to burn it all down and probably WANT to provoke the heat and emotion as a form of 'progress'. Be careful what you wish for when you light the fires, I guess.

The flag, the perception of identity and patriotism and how you define what an 'American' is lies at the heart of this and to get to the other side peacefully requires working around it. One side wants to preserve some sacred level to a part of it, the other thinks the whole thing should be torn down. In these kinds of struggles there are always enough on either side that want to dig in and burn it down. Always.

So I am back to no answers for the extremes that drive the dialectic, other than to talk through it and try to find a middle way.

Drew Brees needs to hear why you think the protest should be focused on the flag and anthem, but you also need to listen to why he thinks that crosses a line and everybody has to chew on that. Problem is the polarization and the extremes on each side who are convinced that are the right side.
"the middle ground" What's the middle ground for racism, police brutality, and black lives obviously not mattering? Only killing one or two black citizens? Only calling the police once on a black person doing nothing but minding their own business?

I've got news for you. There is no "middle ground" on racism and police brutality... nor should there be. That is the essence of the problem now.
 
That's what someone said in 1968 and here we are again.
People born in 1968 haven't even reached 60 years old. It's gonna take a long long time. I would say that it didn't start to subside till the late 90s.
 
That's what someone said in 1968 and here we are again.
... it may not feel like it all the time to all people, but I would like to think we're in a much different place than we were 52 years ago. Still many miles to walk, of course.
 
"the middle ground" What's the middle ground for racism, police brutality, and black lives obviously not mattering? Only killing one or two black citizens? Only calling the police once on a black person doing nothing but minding their own business?

I've got news for you. There is no "middle ground" on racism and police brutality... nor should there be. That is the essence of the problem now.
So your position then is the flag is the symbol of those things and the way to address them?

A start would be to actually start taking action on the nitty gritty, which also will end up challenging a lot the cherished beliefs about America but maybe you could go directly at the issues by voting, by holding politicians accountable.

You also have to ask why our police force looks like an army, why is it militarized, why is it in many cases trained by Israelis to use repressive tactics honed on Palestinians? Why in other countries can police forces be effective without guns and avoid violence usually?

What is different about America?

Why does police work pay so little when risk, stress and commitment is so high? How do you bring back the beat cop who is from his community, looks like his community and knows his community and does not have a military mindset.

Why can't we answer or address these questions? They are not new.

That's just me. Why don't our elected leaders address these things?

Zero tolerance policy for bad cops and a national database that disqualifies them from police work when they've crossed a line.

As I said I don't have answers but I think I know places to start and for a rich advanced society some of this while challenging should not be insurmountable.

These are the places to start with using your right to vote and keeping pressure on the office holders.

Is the problem better or worse in Republican or Democrat controlled cities? Minneapolis is Democrat and most of the biggest cities are. It is in the power of those administrations to remake the police forces. We haven't they? Why not?

There are lots of places to just start but it doesn't happen and we go in circles making this about symbols.
 

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