Brees eyeing MARINO passing record!!!! (MERGED and Merged) (1 Viewer)

[HangtownBaghead]

In response to Thunderstruck: I understand that you may think that we are underating San Diego for letting Brees go. But that was also the sentiment from the rest of the league towards New Orleans at the beginning of the season when we released Brooks and Stallworth. You have to understand the situation was so dire here last season Brees is a breath of fresh air so we naturally think: Why would anyone let him go?

 

[Usmfan84]

Welcome to the world of having Drew Brees as your QB. You'll always be good enough to be dangerous on offense. You'll never be good enough to beat elite defenses--plus you'll lose at least 2 games a year to teams you should have beaten.

I see a lot of arrogance among Saints fans acting like the Bolts were somehow negligent in letting Brees walk. The thing we know that you don't is that "passing yards" is the most overrated stat in football. We knew--and still know--Brees better than you do. You'll figure it out in a couple years. Brees chooses the worst possible times to throw his picks or to go into a passing slump. He'll lose just enough games over a season to cost you decent playoff seeding--if not costing you the playoffs altogether. He's mentally tough enough to overcome his mediocre physical skills and be a good NFL QB. He's not mentally tough enough to overcome in-game adversity.

Brees is a good leader and a good passer, but he doesn't have "it." The guy had 3 4th quarter comebacks in 4 years as a starter with us. Rivers already has that many in 10 games as a starter. Brees lost many, many games where we led in the 4th quarter. He'll never be a Joe Montana or Tom Brady, and that's why he's no longer a Charger. It's not because he was injured or because he was too expensive. It was because stats don't matter if you believe the player can't take you where you want to go.

Your only saying this because Rivers is doing great.... ive read your boards. If Rivers goes into a slump everything would be different. He's not the reason you guys didnt make or lose in the playoffs. Your coach is.

If you guys go futher this year...its because your coach finally learned to be aggressive in the playoffs......and of course because LT is the greatest athlete in THE WORLD.

 

[Usmfan84]

Brees is a good leader and a good passer, but he doesn't have "it." The guy had 3 4th quarter comebacks in 4 years as a starter with us. Rivers already has that many in 10 games as a starter. Brees lost many, many games where we led in the 4th quarter. He'll never be a Joe Montana or Tom Brady, and that's why he's no longer a Charger. It's not because he was injured or because he was too expensive. It was because stats don't matter if you believe the player can't take you where you want to go.

Wrong, the reason you guys got rid of him was because of the injury plus you already paid alot of money to a FIRST ROUND quarterback who sat on the bench for a couple years....and money was going to waste. It had nothing to do with wins or stats. If im correct Brees over the last 3 years has one of the highest completion % in the league.


You guys have a great team be it brees or rivers. Like I said earlier...it all goes on your coach...he's always been known to choke in the playoffs.

 

[DFWBoiler]

Most San Diego fans would disagree with the entirety of your post.

Actually, he may be right. I have monitored the Charger Boards during the Brees years and there were many fans that were extremely critical of Brees. Some it was deserved, but much of it was pretty mean-spirited and personal.

Regarding his points, they are full of generalities, The only stat he quotes directly is the number of 4th quarter comebacks. Funny that he neglects to mention one comeback in particular - the 2004 playoff game against the Jets. After compiling the 3rd best QB rating in the NFL and leading the Chargers to a 12-4 record and their first playoff appearance since 1995, Brees brought them back to tie the game and send it into OT. They drove to the Jets 25 yard line in OT on the strength of his passing, then decided to run LT 3 times into the line and settle for a 41 yard FG by a Rookie Kicker in wet conditions on a natural grass field. He missed, and the Jets immediately drove down the Field to win the game with a much shorter FG. But to many Charger fans, the loss was ALL Brees' fault. They still bring it up. "Brees is 0-1 in the playoffs", etc. etc. etc.

Last year, Brees had the Chargers beating the Cowboys, Steelers, Eagles all in the 4th QTR last year. The Defense and/or Special Teams gave up the lead in all cases. But yet, it was always Brees' fault they lost. It was like a broken record.

Is Brees Montana or Elway? No friggin way. But if you put him on a good Team, he can win. I have no doubt about it and all the comments in the wordl by disgruntled Charger fans will never change my mind.

You want in-game adveristy? Look at the 2000 game between Purdue and Ohio State. Purdue was winning late in the 4th Quarter and merely had to get a couple 1st downs to win the game. Brees gets blitzed, throws a horrible pass to the flat and it gets picked by OSU and run back to the 1 (BTW- Brees tackled the DB at the 1). OSU scores and now Purdue is losing. He throws the winnning TD with 2 minutes to go and Purdue goes to the Rose Bowl for the first time in 34 years. But he was right, the guy just can't deal with in-game adversity!! (sarcasm on)

 

[geauxboy]

I don't want numbers (even though they can be fun to watch accumulate), I want letters. As in "W's". Other than letters, nothing else matters in the end. Brees may be directly responsible for a few of the "L's", but he is also responsible for many of the "W's".

 

[LSSpam]

By the way, for reference, Brees already has 2 "comeback" games (Saints trailed in the 4th quarter and won) as well as 1 more he should have had (Pittsburgh).

 

[arksaint]

For a first year team we are doing great. This team is coming together, and except for some turnovers, we are 8-2. There is work to be done, to be sure - but let's stay positive. Geaux SAINTS!!

 

[Thunderstruck]

Regarding the Chargers losing close games, you know what the difference is between Drew and Rivers?

Rivers puts the nail in the coffin to put the game out-of-reach in the 4th quarter. Drew almost never did. Even in our last two wins in which we had to comeback from 21 and 17 point deficits we won both games by 8 because we put the nail in the coffin when we had the chance. We did it against the Browns and the Rams. If you keep the game real close by being unable to make that one key third down conversion or TD pass late in the game then you invite your defense and special teams to let you down. And that's what happened to us repeatedly. Drew was terrible at putting games in the cooler.

Actually, he may be right. I have monitored the Charger Boards during the Brees years and there were many fans that were extremely critical of Brees. Some it was deserved, but much of it was pretty mean-spirited and personal.

Why do you suppose that is if Drew is really as great as you think? I don't think I heard three Charger fans say Drew was going to lead us to a Superbowl--it was always "We're good enough to win a Superbowl with Drew" or "Drew's good enough to win if he's surrounded by a great team."

Last year, Brees had the Chargers beating the Cowboys, Steelers, Eagles all in the 4th QTR last year. The Defense and/or Special Teams gave up the lead in all cases. But yet, it was always Brees' fault they lost. It was like a broken record.

Brees had 4 shots inside the 5 yard-line to win the Cowboys game and he missed on all 4. And we wouldn't even have gotten that close if he hadn't literally thrown one up for grabs on 4th and long that Parker just happened to come down with.

Against the Eagles...it was a key 4th quarter interception thrown by Drew that got the Eagles back into the game to start with.

I notice you don't mention the first Broncos game which was lost by Drew throwing a third-quarter INT to Bailey that was returned for a TD (when we had the game under control) and then Drew going into the tank for the rest of the game. Funny thing is Rivers threw almost the exact same pick Sunday Night. The difference is, Philip didn't go into the tank after that. He came out and picked the Donks apart for the rest of the game.

I notice you didn't mention the loss in Kansas City in which Drew was terrible.

You didn't mention one of Drew's three career 4th quarter comebacks--our win in Washington in which LT single-handedly won the game while Drew looked on as a bystander with his horrible performance in the game.

I notice you didn't mention that in the playoff game in which Drew engineered that nice comeback against the Jets that the game was over--OVER--and we had LOST with time expiring in the 4th quarter...but the Jets linebacker committed the stupidest personal foul I've ever seen to give us one more chance at the score from the 1 yard line.

You conveniently forgot about the Dolphins loss in which the Fins made Drew look helpless for 3.5 quarters until we were too far behind to come back.

Did you forget how we were beating the undefeated Colts handily in the third quarter...and then Drew when braindead, threw two interceptions, lost a fumble, and did everything he could to let the Colts back into the game? Turner bailed Drew out with that 83 yard touchdown run.

There were some games we lost where Drew did not deserve the blame. And there were also games we won where Drew did everything he could to lose the game. And then there were the wins where Drew was just along for the ride.

Is Brees Montana or Elway? No friggin way. But if you put him on a good Team, he can win. I have no doubt about it and all the comments in the wordl by disgruntled Charger fans will never change my mind.

Sure, he can win. And you'll think your team is really good, and then suddenly you'll lose two in a row to teams you should beat and your entire season takes a U-turn. I'm sure the Saints will rally back...win 2 or 3 in a row, but then suddenly Drew will implode in a game and you'll drop another rank in the postseason seedings.

Then the playoffs will come and you'll be one-and-done.

In your mind Drew just needs to be on a good team to win. Well, he was on a good team last year. Our roster wasn't much different last year than this year, but last year at this time we were 6-4 and trying to resurrect our season because we could almost never steal a game when we were losing and we could never win the close games.

You want in-game adveristy? Look at the 2000 game between Purdue and Ohio State. Purdue was winning late in the 4th Quarter and merely had to get a couple 1st downs to win the game. Brees gets blitzed, throws a horrible pass to the flat and it gets picked by OSU and run back to the 1 (BTW- Brees tackled the DB at the 1). OSU scores and now Purdue is losing. He throws the winnning TD with 2 minutes to go and Purdue goes to the Rose Bowl for the first time in 34 years. But he was right, the guy just can't deal with in-game adversity!! (sarcasm on)

The best example you can find is from 6 years ago?

Here's a couple things I know for sure:

1. I don't hear any Charger fans lamenting the loss of Brees despite the ridiculous yardage numbers he's posting. Almost all the Charger fans who were initially upset by the decision have recanted and are happy as can be now.

2. For the first time in years I feel like the Bolts are never out of a game and that we have the mental toughness to make adjustments and overcome adversity. I never felt that way when Drew was here. Things snowball on Drew. It's never just an isolated thing that goes wrong for him...it's always a chain of mistakes.

3. For the first time in years I feel like our offense can score points and move the ball even against the very best defenses in the NFL. Drew was almost always stymied by elite defenses.

4. I don't expect Saints fans to agree with me. What I find mildly amusing is how fans who have been watching Drew for all of 10 games think they know more about him than I do having watched him for 5 full seasons.

 

[Loose Cannon]

CHARGERS:


End of Rams game:


1-10-STL14 (11:50) M.Turner left tackle for 14 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
3-8-STL25 (4:04) P.Rivers pass deep right to L.Tomlinson for 25 yards, TOUCHDOWN.



End of Niners game:

3-1-SF1 37) L.Tomlinson left guard for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
1-5-SF5 (4:23) L.Tomlinson left tackle for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN.



End of Cleveland game:

1-10-CLE41 (1:17) L.Tomlinson up the middle for 41 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-7-CLE7 (9:20) L.Tomlinson right end for 7 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-8-CLE8 (3:58) L.Tomlinson up the middle for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN.



End of Bengals game:

3-2-CIN2 (15:00) L.Tomlinson left end for 2 yards, TOUCHDOWN. PENALTY on CIN-M.Williams, Face Mask (15 Yards), 15 yards, enforced between downs.
1-9-CIN9 (14:46) L.Tomlinson left end for 9 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
3-5-CIN5 (2:37) (Shotgun) P.Rivers pass short left to B.Manumaleuna for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN [M.Williams].



End of Broncos game:

3-6-SD24 (9:35) (Shotgun) P.Rivers pass short left intended for K.McCardell INTERCEPTED by Da.Williams at SD 31. Da.Williams for 31 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-3-DEN3 (5:15) L.Tomlinson left guard for 3 yards, TOUCHDOWN. SD-N.Hardwick was injured during the play.
3-3-SD49 (4:00) (Shotgun) P.Rivers pass short middle to L.Tomlinson for 51 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
^^ all LT
2-5-DEN5 (6:51) P.Rivers pass short left to V.Jackson for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
3-1-DEN1 (1:17) L.Tomlinson left guard for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.






SAINTS:

Tampa Game:

1-10-TB45 42) D.Brees pass deep left to D.Henderson for 45 yards, TOUCHDOWN.



Philly Game:

2-7-PHI48 (13:01) D.Brees pass deep right to J.Horn for 48 yards, TOUCHDOWN [T.Cole].


Green Bay:

1-10-GB35 (8:26) D.Brees pass deep left to M.Colston for 35 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-10-GB23 (8:01) D.McAllister left end for 23 yards, TOUCHDOWN.


Cleveland:

3-2-CLE12 (2:06) D.Brees pass short right to M.Colston for 12 yards, TOUCHDOWN.




---------------------------------------------


Late in the games that have been won by the respective teams, I keep seeing two names: Brees and Tomlinson. Rivers makes an occasional cameo but LT _IS_ that entire offense.


Try again, Bolts fan. Rivers isn't even in the same universe as Brees.

 

[domedog316]

CHARGERS:


End of Rams game:


1-10-STL14 (11:50) M.Turner left tackle for 14 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
3-8-STL25 (4:04) P.Rivers pass deep right to L.Tomlinson for 25 yards, TOUCHDOWN.



End of Niners game:

3-1-SF1 37) L.Tomlinson left guard for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
1-5-SF5 (4:23) L.Tomlinson left tackle for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN.



End of Cleveland game:

1-10-CLE41 (1:17) L.Tomlinson up the middle for 41 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-7-CLE7 (9:20) L.Tomlinson right end for 7 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-8-CLE8 (3:58) L.Tomlinson up the middle for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN.



End of Bengals game:

3-2-CIN2 (15:00) L.Tomlinson left end for 2 yards, TOUCHDOWN. PENALTY on CIN-M.Williams, Face Mask (15 Yards), 15 yards, enforced between downs.
1-9-CIN9 (14:46) L.Tomlinson left end for 9 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
3-5-CIN5 (2:37) (Shotgun) P.Rivers pass short left to B.Manumaleuna for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN [M.Williams].



End of Broncos game:

3-6-SD24 (9:35) (Shotgun) P.Rivers pass short left intended for K.McCardell INTERCEPTED by Da.Williams at SD 31. Da.Williams for 31 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-3-DEN3 (5:15) L.Tomlinson left guard for 3 yards, TOUCHDOWN. SD-N.Hardwick was injured during the play.
3-3-SD49 (4:00) (Shotgun) P.Rivers pass short middle to L.Tomlinson for 51 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
^^ all LT
2-5-DEN5 (6:51) P.Rivers pass short left to V.Jackson for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
3-1-DEN1 (1:17) L.Tomlinson left guard for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.






SAINTS:

Tampa Game:

1-10-TB45 42) D.Brees pass deep left to D.Henderson for 45 yards, TOUCHDOWN.



Philly Game:

2-7-PHI48 (13:01) D.Brees pass deep right to J.Horn for 48 yards, TOUCHDOWN [T.Cole].


Green Bay:

1-10-GB35 (8:26) D.Brees pass deep left to M.Colston for 35 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
1-10-GB23 (8:01) D.McAllister left end for 23 yards, TOUCHDOWN.


Cleveland:

3-2-CLE12 (2:06) D.Brees pass short right to M.Colston for 12 yards, TOUCHDOWN.




---------------------------------------------


Late in the games that have been won by the respective teams, I keep seeing two names: Brees and Tomlinson. Rivers makes an occasional cameo but LT _IS_ that entire offense.


Try again, Bolts fan. Rivers isn't even in the same universe as Brees.

Great Post. I've not looked at it like that.

Looks like Brees is as advertised. The only reason that Chargers fans are smug about Brees now is that the team is winning. If (God forbid) LT was to go down with a season ending injury.......we would see a different Rivers....just sayin'!

 

[trol]

You need to understand something. We had to deal with the "potential" of Aaron Brooks all those years. Drew is a breath of fresh air.

The turnovers in the Pittsburg had nothing to do with him. He was able to bring the team back to take lead. Then he had the team in a good position in the end.
It feels great to have a quarterback with his leadership capabilities.

 

[Thunderstruck]

Late in the games that have been won by the respective teams, I keep seeing two names: Brees and Tomlinson. Rivers makes an occasional cameo but LT _IS_ that entire offense.


Try again, Bolts fan. Rivers isn't even in the same universe as Brees.

Yeah, you're right...because who scores the TD tells you the entire story of how you got in position to score the TD. [/sarcasm]

Tomllinson's a great player but we don't get down inside the 10 yard line late in games without Rivers prolonging drives with key third-down conversions. I've lost count of the number of key third-down conversions PR has pulled off in crunch-time. And Tomlinson didn't have a lot to do with us coming back in Arrowhead against the Chiefs after being down early. PR beat the Steelers with his arm in the second half. The TD that gave us the lead for good against the Broncos was a Rivers pass. The 25-yard TD pass to Tomlinson that sealed the win against the Rams was a thing of beauty. It wasn't LT catching the ball at the LoS and making 11 guys miss. It was LT with half-a-step downfield and a perfect pass by Rivers.

LT's gift is scoring touchdowns when we get inside the 20. Beyond that he's a very solid running-back, but he's barely had over 100 yards rushing in each of the last two games. You're going to contend that all we need is for LT to put up 104 rushing yards in order to comeback from three-score deficits? Yeah, okay. When LT puts up receiving numbers, don't forget that there has to be a QB throwing him the ball.

Oh, and don't forget---Brees had Tomlinson last year. Tomlinson didn't suddenly become a way better player between this year and last.

Right now the only advantage Brees has over Rivers is experience. But Rivers is showing week-in and week-out that he can succeed without experience. How good is he going to be in his third or fourth year as a starter?

 

[Loose Cannon]

Yeah, you're right...because who scores the TD tells you the entire story of how you got in position to score the TD. [/sarcasm]

Tomllinson's a great player but we don't get down inside the 10 yard line late in games without Rivers prolonging drives with key third-down conversions. I've lost count of the number of key third-down conversions PR has pulled off in crunch-time. And Tomlinson didn't have a lot to do with us coming back in Arrowhead against the Chiefs after being down early. PR beat the Steelers with his arm in the second half. The TD that gave us the lead for good against the Broncos was a Rivers pass. The 25-yard TD pass to Tomlinson that sealed the win against the Rams was a thing of beauty. It wasn't LT catching the ball at the LoS and making 11 guys miss. It was LT with half-a-step downfield and a perfect pass by Rivers.

LT's gift is scoring touchdowns when we get inside the 20. Beyond that he's a very solid running-back, but he's barely had over 100 yards rushing in each of the last two games. You're going to contend that all we need is for LT to put up 104 rushing yards in order to comeback from three-score deficits? Yeah, okay. When LT puts up receiving numbers, don't forget that there has to be a QB throwing him the ball.

Oh, and don't forget---Brees had Tomlinson last year. Tomlinson didn't suddenly become a way better player between this year and last.

Right now the only advantage Brees has over Rivers is experience. But Rivers is showing week-in and week-out that he can succeed without experience. How good is he going to be in his third or fourth year as a starter?

Again, Rivers has a marked advantage over every QB in the league with _MAYBE_ the exception of Damon Huard/Trent Green, because he has the best RB in the game on his team. He also has one of the best tight ends in the game, who he has inexplicably ignored for the most part all season.

LT's gift is just getting touchdowns? Are you serious? He's averaging 4.9 YPC even with the ENTIRE defense focusing on him. LT is the best running back of my generation and will probably go down as the best ever.

As far as LT not "suddenly becoming a better player"... he's been dinged up for the past two years.


Rivers looks like a good prospect, I'm not denying that. And you're right, he will be better in 3-4 years. Maybe as good as Brees is now, if you're lucky.

 

[DFWBoiler]

Man!! The bitterness is still there. I can tell. I've read the littany of Brees failures a million times. But thanks for dredging it up again.

You are actually going to blame the Philly loss on Brees? LT had -7 yards at half-time. How did they get back in the game? Brees passing. They were lining up for a FG to give them a bigger lead. It gets blocked and run back for a TD. But did Brees quit? He was trying to drive for the winning score when Caldwell fumbled the ball? But that was Brees fault too, wasn't it? And on his "INT" that you say let them back in the game, he was hit as he threw and it flutterted up into the air. Kind of like Rivers did against Denver in the 1st Qtr Sunday, but V. Jackson knocked the ball away from the DB's. Hope Phillip bought him dinner for that.

Oh, and by the way, who was it that sat out the Cowboy game again? That's right, Gates - the Chargers best receiver not named LT. How many games has Rivers not had Gates on the Field this year? Zero.

Rivers is great, no doubt. But was it Rivers that sacked Palmer and forced the fumble which allowed them to score the go ahead TD? Was it Rivers that picked off Plummer late in the game to allow the "nail in the coffin" TD?

If you don't think that the Chargers Team this year is better than last year, with all due respect, I think you are nuts. Leander Jordan instead of Marcus McNeal? Castillo and Merriman in their 2nd years? Shaun Phillips, Drayton Florence, Terrance Keil, etc. etc. with another year under their belts. V. Jackson healthy and with another year experience? Dielman a full-time starter?

You have Rivers now. He is the chosen one. You can let the Brees hatred go now.

 

[abyss3]

Rivers may well turn out to be a better leader than Brees.

Sunday the Saints were missing guys that could take control of the team. I'm lazy so let's just say a "Ray Lewis Type". Earlier in the season Payton would have been attacking guys who made mistakes and demanding accountability. Maybe it's guys believing thier own press clippings. "I'm an MVP quarterback, I can fit this pass in there!"

IMO, B. Herbert was right. The problem was that the Saints failed to keep pace with the Cincy. You cannot deny that was the game plan. And Joe Horn is right. Somebody has to be more vocal. We went from getting big play production from all different guys to .... to getting breakdowns from all different guys.

This now the second half of the season. Isn't this the time for the real contenders to step up? Until Brees proves he grab control of a team like a Montana .... you cannot list him with top tier guys in this league. Shove those stats ..... imo