Brees eyeing MARINO passing record!!!! (MERGED and Merged) (1 Viewer)

[Loose Cannon]

Rivers may well turn out to be a better leader than Brees.

Sunday the Saints were missing guys that could take control of the team. I'm lazy so let's just say a "Ray Lewis Type". Earlier in the season Payton would have been attacking guys who made mistakes and demanding accountability. Maybe it's guys believing thier own press clippings. "I'm an MVP quarterback, I can fit this pass in there!"

IMO, B. Herbert was right. The problem was that the Saints failed to keep pace with the Cincy. You cannot deny that was the game plan. And Joe Horn is right. Somebody has to be more vocal. We went from getting big play production from all different guys to .... to getting breakdowns from all different guys.

This now the second half of the season. Isn't this the time for the real contenders to step up? Until Brees proves he grab control of a team like a Montana .... you cannot list him with top tier guys in this league. Shove those stats ..... imo

It was one freaking loss. Last I checked the Niners never went 16-0 with Montana having 16 perfect games.

Rivers had two picks against Denver. Lucky for him, he had LT.

 

[desmondskiggers]

Hey, Chargers fan. Enjoy the regular season. Phillip Rivers might be the next Dan Marino, but you still play MartyBall and you WILL get bounced in your first playoff game.

LC, glad to see ya back man.

 

[SaintJ]

Welcome to the world of having Drew Brees as your QB. You'll always be good enough to be dangerous on offense. You'll never be good enough to beat elite defenses--plus you'll lose at least 2 games a year to teams you should have beaten.

I see a lot of arrogance among Saints fans acting like the Bolts were somehow negligent in letting Brees walk. The thing we know that you don't is that "passing yards" is the most overrated stat in football. We knew--and still know--Brees better than you do. You'll figure it out in a couple years. Brees chooses the worst possible times to throw his picks or to go into a passing slump. He'll lose just enough games over a season to cost you decent playoff seeding--if not costing you the playoffs altogether. He's mentally tough enough to overcome his mediocre physical skills and be a good NFL QB. He's not mentally tough enough to overcome in-game adversity.

Brees is a good leader and a good passer, but he doesn't have "it." The guy had 3 4th quarter comebacks in 4 years as a starter with us. Rivers already has that many in 10 games as a starter. Brees lost many, many games where we led in the 4th quarter. He'll never be a Joe Montana or Tom Brady, and that's why he's no longer a Charger. It's not because he was injured or because he was too expensive. It was because stats don't matter if you believe the player can't take you where you want to go.

Well, here goes.

Some of the Saints fans' love affair with Brees comes from the fact that since Archie Manning we haven't had a quarterback remotely near his prime who had both minimal NFL physical talent plus something behind either their forehead or their sternum other than spongey goo. Hebert, Everett, Shuler, Billy Joe, Wuerrffel, Brooks, Bouman.... Also, we focus on our own team a lot more than the others, as you'd expect, so some of our less studious fans hadn't focused on Rivers' significant potential.

Having said that....

Let's see how Rivers does in the playoffs under Marty Schottenheimer. Marty's done wonders for the post-season careers of lots of guys already (Bernie Kosar, hey, he was even one and done with Joe Montana).

You're basing this grand, sweeping, self-justifying analysis on two years of play. His first three years were not unusual for young QBs on bad teams. In 2004, Brees was third in the league in passer rating, with 27 TDs vs. 7 INTs (please point out the slump?), and was 31-42-319-2-1-101.5 in the playoff loss. If you don't have "it", what was this, a 16-game lucky streak? In 2005, the team as a whole underperformed a little, which was enough, probably to the extent it overperformed in 2004. So, in the final analysis, under your thesis you have to write off all of 2004 as a fluke and be done with it. However, "it" doesn't come and go. You have "it" or you don't.

Based on career track, if anybody doesn't have "it", it's your head coach. Please don't be thunderstruck by another first-round playoff exit from Martyball; he's got an exclusive license on it. He's got "it", and to steal from Bill Simmons, "it's" an inability to coach in the playoffs other than with his hands around his own throat.

One final point on mental toughness and adjustments: in our second game this year, still rebuilding his arm, on the road, Brees opened with two fumbles and a bad pick on our first three possessions. The "D" kept us in the game and we scored on five our next six possessions and won the game. Against Pittsburgh, the Steelers scored on the opening drive, got a fumble on our third play and scored again, and we're down 14-0. By halftime we had a 24-17 lead, without the benefit of any turnovers, and but for three idiot fumbles and two 70+ yard runs given up by the D, we win that game. Brees had us down inside the 25 in the final minute before we fumbled again. I guess you can just write stuff, but I'm going to keep coming back with specifics that may not prove your totally wrong, but they sure don't support what you've thrown up against the wall.

 

[abyss3]

No disrespect at all toward Brees. And drops aren't his fault at all. I just didn't see ANYONE being a leader during a game that COULD have been won.

 

[SaintJ]

The words "leadership" and "time of year" should never be used in the same post as the words "B. Hebert."

 

[SaintJ]

No disrespect at all toward Brees. And drops aren't his fault at all. I just didn't see ANYONE being a leader during a game that COULD have been won.

It's sort of self-proving, isn't it? If they win, he's a leader, if they lose, he's not.
I don't recall anything real demonstrative out of Joe Montana. Or Tom Brady, for that matter. Elway was not one to get in guys' faces. Favre only celebrates, not berates. I'm not sure what you were looking for. If you wanted an Hebert-type demonstrative outburst, I struggle to think of a lot of quarterbacks who were great leaders who used them.

Unitas? Nah.

Montana? Nah.

Starr? He spoke at all?

Fouts?

What are you pointing to, other than the identity of the QB and the final score, to make a leadership quotient determination about Sunday's game?

 

[abyss3]

owned. (12 character minimum, lol)

 

[abyss3]

It does come down to wins and losses. The heart of all sports. Let's say Dwight Clark doesn't make that famous grab. Does it change who he is as a person or as a player? I say no. And the 49'ers are still a good team. But maybe they wouldn't have been champions that year. The fact remains.

It's all about winning. What's that saying about a game of inches?

 

[Thunderstruck]

If you don't think that the Chargers Team this year is better than last year, with all due respect, I think you are nuts. Leander Jordan instead of Marcus McNeal? Castillo and Merriman in their 2nd years? Shaun Phillips, Drayton Florence, Terrance Keil, etc. etc. with another year under their belts. V. Jackson healthy and with another year experience? Dielman a full-time starter?

You have Rivers now. He is the chosen one. You can let the Brees hatred go now.

There was a point in the Rams game where we had two out of seven of our starting front-seven on the field due to injuries. Merriman has been out three games, Castillo two, Phillips has missed 2 games and played the last 2 on one leg, Olshansky has missed 4 games, Sunday night we had Ryon Bingham, our backup NT, playing DE, and you're going to say we're better this year than last year? Yes, we're better on offense, but a LOT of that has to do with Rivers. Why do you think LT and everyone else on the Bolts offense raves about PR? Because they're secretly longing for Brees to return?

We've upgraded four positions: LT, blocking-TE, free-safety, and quarterback. We've also had maybe 1 game this year where we had all seven guys in our front-seven healthy at the same time. In several games we've been missing two or three starters along with another two or three guys playing at 80%. We've been winning with offense the last three weeks especially. And PR has had a huge part in that. He beat the Steelers, which Brees has never done. He beat the Donks in Denver, something Brees failed to do in 4 tries, and he's just scratching the surface of what he will be eventually.

Rivers is like John Elway or Tom Brady, which is one reason why we're by far the best second-half team in the NFL this year. He has the "it" that Brees lacks.

 

[Loose Cannon]

There was a point in the Rams game where we had two out of seven of our starting front-seven on the field due to injuries. Merriman has been out three games, Castillo two, Phillips has missed 2 games and played the last 2 on one leg, Olshansky has missed 4 games, Sunday night we had Ryon Bingham, our backup NT, playing DE, and you're going to say we're better this year than last year? Yes, we're better on offense, but a LOT of that has to do with Rivers. Why do you think LT and everyone else on the Bolts offense raves about PR? Because they're secretly longing for Brees to return?

We've upgraded four positions: LT, blocking-TE, free-safety, and quarterback. We've also had maybe 1 game this year where we had all seven guys in our front-seven healthy at the same time. In several games we've been missing two or three starters along with another two or three guys playing at 80%. We've been winning with offense the last three weeks especially. And PR has had a huge part in that. He beat the Steelers, which Brees has never done. He beat the Donks in Denver, something Brees failed to do in 4 tries, and he's just scratching the surface of what he will be eventually.

Rivers is like John Elway or Tom Brady, which is one reason why we're by far the best second-half team in the NFL this year. He has the "it" that Brees lacks.

Rivers beat Denver and Pitt? It was Phil Rivers vs. those teams? The scoreboard said:

RIVERS: 35
Broncos: 27

??

You've got the one man team thing right. Except it's:

LT: 28 (footnote for whoever scored the other TD)
Broncos: 27




Your logic is the equivalent of saying that Ben Roethlisberger beat the Seahawks last year.

 

[domedog316]

There was a point in the Rams game where we had two out of seven of our starting front-seven on the field due to injuries. Merriman has been out three games, Castillo two, Phillips has missed 2 games and played the last 2 on one leg, Olshansky has missed 4 games, Sunday night we had Ryon Bingham, our backup NT, playing DE, and you're going to say we're better this year than last year? Yes, we're better on offense, but a LOT of that has to do with Rivers. Why do you think LT and everyone else on the Bolts offense raves about PR? Because they're secretly longing for Brees to return?

We've upgraded four positions: LT, blocking-TE, free-safety, and quarterback. We've also had maybe 1 game this year where we had all seven guys in our front-seven healthy at the same time. In several games we've been missing two or three starters along with another two or three guys playing at 80%. We've been winning with offense the last three weeks especially. And PR has had a huge part in that. He beat the Steelers, which Brees has never done. He beat the Donks in Denver, something Brees failed to do in 4 tries, and he's just scratching the surface of what he will be eventually.

Rivers is like John Elway or Tom Brady, which is one reason why we're by far the best second-half team in the NFL this year. He has the "it" that Brees lacks.

I just wonder why you're on this board trying to convince us of this? What could your motivation possibly be other than you are a troll who can't stand it that Brees is having alot of success?

I mean, dude, if you believe all that fine but don't act like everyone else is wrong. You have an opinion and that's fine. You are most certainly entitled to it.

To even compare Rivers to Elway or Brady just shows how much of a Charger homer you are. I mean, you lost alot of credibility with that statement.

The Saints had a guy named Aaron Brooks who started out his career here better than alot of guys. He won game after game by himself alot of times. Threw for a gadgillion yards. Won a playoff game after only about 5 starts.

You know what happened there. The reason we can annoint Brees as a great quarterback and you can start to consider him in the league of a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning is that he has a HISTORY you can look at. He has been a winner at every level of football he's played. Now, he's free of Marty Ball. He can now be the passer that he's capable of. It wasn't long ago (this season to be exact) that Marty was ALREADY being questioned about his style of coaching.

He can't change who he is. He will crash and burn in the playoffs. At least Payton is an unknown....I would rather have an unknown than a guy who has an ESTABLISHED record as a choker. I mean, he lost with Joe Montana himself......right?

 

[guidry23]

I like the stat as well... but there is one thing that Marino was never able to get... that i hope Brees gets in a Saints uniform

 

[DFWBoiler]

There was a point in the Rams game where we had two out of seven of our starting front-seven on the field due to injuries. Merriman has been out three games, Castillo two, Phillips has missed 2 games and played the last 2 on one leg, Olshansky has missed 4 games, Sunday night we had Ryon Bingham, our backup NT, playing DE, and you're going to say we're better this year than last year? Yes, we're better on offense, but a LOT of that has to do with Rivers. Why do you think LT and everyone else on the Bolts offense raves about PR? Because they're secretly longing for Brees to return?

We've upgraded four positions: LT, blocking-TE, free-safety, and quarterback. We've also had maybe 1 game this year where we had all seven guys in our front-seven healthy at the same time. In several games we've been missing two or three starters along with another two or three guys playing at 80%. We've been winning with offense the last three weeks especially. And PR has had a huge part in that. He beat the Steelers, which Brees has never done. He beat the Donks in Denver, something Brees failed to do in 4 tries, and he's just scratching the surface of what he will be eventually.

Rivers is like John Elway or Tom Brady, which is one reason why we're by far the best second-half team in the NFL this year. He has the "it" that Brees lacks.

That's what I said. You have the Chosen one now. He has "it", like Elway, Montana, and Brady. You should be very happy. You can let your hatred for Brees go now. I think it will make you feel better.

PS: Since Dan Fouts Retired, the Chargers leading QB's have been, respectively:

1988 - Mark Malone
1989 - Jim McMahon
1990 - Billy Joe Tolliver
1991 - John Friesz
1992-97 Stan Humphries
1998 - Craig Whelihan
1999 - Jim Harbaugh
2000 - Ryan Leaf
2001 - Doug Flutie
2002-05 - Drew Brees
2006-? - Phillip Rivers

Other than Stan the Man, it's been a revolving door. You would think that the only other QB to lead the Team to winning seasons and the playoffs would earn at least a small modicom of respect from Charger Fans used to futility. But I learned these past few years that it is way too much to ask.

 

[Thunderstruck]

Rivers beat Denver and Pitt? It was Phil Rivers vs. those teams? The scoreboard said:

RIVERS: 35
Broncos: 27

??

You've got the one man team thing right. Except it's:

LT: 28 (footnote for whoever scored the other TD)
Broncos: 27




Your logic is the equivalent of saying that Ben Roethlisberger beat the Seahawks last year.

And 90% of Saints fans aren't attributing their turnaround to Brees? Okay, lol.

You guys have as much talent at the skill-position on offense as any team in the NFL. You have two great receivers, Deuce McAllister ain't exactly chopped liver, Reggie Bush is Mr. Hype, but try telling me defenses don't keep an eye on him when he's in the game...you have high draft picks on the o-line...

I don't want to hear how PR is being propped up by a fantastic offense when Brees is surrounded by as much offensive talent as any QB in the NFL.

To DOMEDOG: I'm here because I constantly see the misconception that the only reason we gave up on Brees was because of the injury and the money we were paying PR. But we had more than enough money under the cap to pay both Drew and PR and still lock up guys to long-term contracts and pursue free agents we may have had interest in. People seem to forget we were $18 million under the cap last year BEFORE it was increased. Heck, we could've signed Brees and traded PR and had enough money under the cap to keep our roster at it's current point after taking the cap-hit to move PR. We were in better cap-shape than you guys.

AJ made the decision based on PR's upside. Considering the fact that Drew was a former pro-bowler and had put up some real good numbers, what was the upside AJ saw that made him prefer Rivers?

 

[domedog316]

To DOMEDOG: I'm here because I constantly see the misconception that the only reason we gave up on Brees was because of the injury and the money we were paying PR. But we had more than enough money under the cap to pay both Drew and PR and still lock up guys to long-term contracts and pursue free agents we may have had interest in. People seem to forget we were $18 million under the cap last year BEFORE it was increased. Heck, we could've signed Brees and traded PR and had enough money under the cap to keep our roster at it's current point after taking the cap-hit to move PR. We were in better cap-shape than you guys.

AJ made the decision based on PR's upside. Considering the fact that Drew was a former pro-bowler and had put up some real good numbers, what was the upside AJ saw that made him prefer Rivers?

Do you really believe that the Chargers would have been able to lock both Brees and Rivers up longterm? If you do, then man I want some of what you're smokin' cuz I can tell from here it's good.

Rivers wouldn't have allowed it. He would have demanded to be traded in a heartbeat if Brees would have been retained. The players are too close in age and Brees has now proven in New Orleans that Rivers would have been on the bench for a long time. Rivers is probably going to be a good QB in this league for a long time but your constant bashing of Brees on this forum is going to get you labeled a Troll.

You really didn't address my question about Marty Ball though. I find that telling. Folks usually don't address things when they know what's being said is spot on.

Carry on. I'm done here.