Brees' play vs our record (is he partly responsible for 4-6?) (1 Viewer)

7throundpick

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Well, I guess at some level, everyone on a team is "partly" responsible for their record. And I know he'd say "yes, we are all responsible". But yesterday I had a room full of Saints fans trying to tell me that Brees is seriously "overrated", because we aren't winning.

"uh, no", I said. But I immediately wanted facts showing how absurd that statement was.

So here is what a little research turned up. Comparing Drew's play to the other 32 QBs. (I'll try to play devil's advocate)

1. Drew is #1 in the league in total yards with 3277.

...well, maybe he was padding his stats at the end of games. Plus some QBs missed games right? (Brady missed 4)

2. Nope, he is # 1 in average yards per game as well with 328.

....OK, but still thats just yards. The main thing a QB needs to do is score, so what about that?

3. Drew is #1 in TDs at 26

...uh, ok, but was he being efficient with the ball, controlling the clock or are those stats masked by big plays where receivers got a lot of yards after the catch (YAC)

4. Drew is #1 in completions with 298 (He had to throw a lot of passes)

...yeah, but he probably threw it a million times and had a bunch of incompletions

5. Drew is #1 in completion percentage at 71%

...well what about interceptions, fumbles, penalties....what's his QB rating?

6. He is 4th with a 74.8 QBR and a passer rating of 106.4 (which is amazing when you are always trying to play catchup so much of the time)

...well let's not give him too much credit. I'm sure our running game helps a lot.

7. Our running game ranks 17th (it's average)

...So then with an average running game our overall offense can't be at the top

8. We have the # 1 offense again (422 yards per game) and the #2 scoring offense (28.5 pts per game). Mostly because of our passing game


....Well our defense has been playing better.

9. Yes it has, but for the year it ranks 27th in yards allowed and 31st in points allowed (28.6) and I'm not even going to mention our special teams.

So in conclusion...

Well, you draw your own conclusions. Are you getting tired like I am explaining stuff to the Drew Brees doubters?
 

bclemms

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I feel horrible for Brees.

It's like we are watching a Michael Jordan led Bulls team struggle to reach .500 every year. Put a mediocre team around him and he'll get you a championship. Put a good team around him and he'll get you a dynasty. Instead Brees has been like the fly standing on a mountain of **** for the last 4 seasons.
 
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7throundpick

7throundpick

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Any room full of Drew doubters are not Saints fans. Just saying
Well, not informed fans, but I promise they cared enough about "their team" to argue with me. And there are a few on this board who would actually agree with them.
 

SAINTS 12

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Turnovers on a short field has put the defenses numbers this high.. the record has A lot to do with coaching, that's why This Saints team has losing record

9. Yes it has, but for the year it ranks 27th in yards allowed and 31st in points allowed (28.6)
 

Bill

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I love a good 'devil's advocate' synopsis like the one presented by the OP.

This tells us two things about the Brees doubters and critics.

1.) They are overly critical of his mistakes, imagining that his turnovers were always his fault and feel that these should not happen to a top rated QB. It's a true testament of their expectations of him.

2.) They don't understand the role of the rest of the team especially in those instances when he is clearly trying to pick up the slack and make something happen to put his team in a position to win. As was explained in this thread, as poor as these recent seasons have turned out for us, it would truly have been a Cleveland-esque dumpster fire without some of the skills of Drew Brees. Just a little better performance by our defense and special teams during that time would certainly have made a big difference in our post season activity and record.

No player deserves all the praise for wins. But neither should they become the scapegoat for the losses either.
 

saints28

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Well, I guess at some level, everyone on a team is "partly" responsible for their record. And I know he'd say "yes, we are all responsible". But yesterday I had a room full of Saints fans trying to tell me that Brees is seriously "overrated", because we aren't winning.

"uh, no", I said. But I immediately wanted facts showing how absurd that statement was.

So here is what a little research turned up. Comparing Drew's play to the other 32 QBs. (I'll try to play devil's advocate)

1. Drew is #1 in the league in total yards with 3277.

...well, maybe he was padding his stats at the end of games. Plus some QBs missed games right? (Brady missed 4)

2. Nope, he is # 1 in average yards per game as well with 328.

....OK, but still thats just yards. The main thing a QB needs to do is score, so what about that?

3. Drew is #1 in TDs at 26

...uh, ok, but was he being efficient with the ball, controlling the clock or are those stats masked by big plays where receivers got a lot of yards after the catch (YAC)

4. Drew is #1 in completions with 298 (He had to throw a lot of passes)

...yeah, but he probably threw it a million times and had a bunch of incompletions

5. Drew is #1 in completion percentage at 71%

...well what about interceptions, fumbles, penalties....what's his QB rating?

6. He is 4th with a 74.8 QBR and a passer rating of 106.4 (which is amazing when you are always trying to play catchup so much of the time)

...well let's not give him too much credit. I'm sure our running game helps a lot.

7. Our running game ranks 17th (it's average)

...So then with an average running game our overall offense can't be at the top

8. We have the # 1 offense again (422 yards per game) and the #2 scoring offense (28.5 pts per game). Mostly because of our passing game


....Well our defense has been playing better.

9. Yes it has, but for the year it ranks 27th in yards allowed and 31st in points allowed (28.6) and I'm not even going to mention our special teams.

So in conclusion...

Well, you draw your own conclusions. Are you getting tired like I am explaining stuff to the Drew Brees doubters?

Just points out how bad this coaching staff and Talent evaluations job they have done over the past few years. Everyone will point that this team is going to be better next year. When next year comes around the same fundamental mistakes will come back to haunt this team. More time passes the more things stay the same.
 

SaintsAreWinners

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I don't blame Drew at all for our record. Mistakes happen, no matter who you are.

In spite of his turnovers, Brees has put us in position to win most of those games.
 

VA WHO DAT

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I feel that our special teams play is more at fault, and Drew's play is more the reason why we won most of our games. With that being said the falcons and chief's pick six(s) and multiple turnover games the past two weeks certainly put our team at a disadvantage.
 

bobad

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I love a good 'devil's advocate' synopsis like the one presented by the OP.
I respect and enjoy true fans who play Devil's advocate, but they do it here at their own peril. There have even been disappearances. :no:
 

AARPSaint

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I hate it when people confuse me with the facts. :ezbill:

What the numbers don't accomplish is to give the context. Example: a fumble in the middle of the field is different from a fumble recovery deep in your own territory. That recovery means that you are probably going to experience an imminent score. And, a fumble recovery deep in an opponent's territory means that your scoring potential is high.

Unfortunately, interceptions are another issue. It's hard to tell sometimes if they result from the receiver running the wrong route or the QB making a bad decision. And these deflection interceptions, which have plagued the Saints for decades it seems, are only partially the QB's fault.

Still, to blame the team's record on Brees is absurd. It's almost never one thing but rather a combination of problems.
 

BoNcHiE

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He's no more responsible than the guy who's made the same mistakes (or worse) but is on a 7-2 team.

No QB can be perfect. He's been good enough to win every game this year. Period.
 

Jubilee Dunbar

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Drew is the best thing thats ever happened to this franchise. He is the primary reason we have even been competitive over all these years. His football intelligence and skills have been instrumental in allowing the Saints complex offense to be highly rated year after year. Brees can make receivers off the streets look excellent and is the true leader of this team. Sure he makes mistakes from time to time but that is usually under extreme pressure due to a lack of a supporting cast or desperately trying to play catch up. I would list Drew as the least of concerns for the lack of success this team is currently having. Start with poor special teams, turnovers and add in injuries, defensive lapses, coaching decisions, lack of talent in some positions, draft misses, free agent signing misses long before getting to any criticism of Brees.
 

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