Brees Quitely having a great season (1 Viewer)

[Madmarsha]

Yep darn thing sure did

Dang, you need to fire it.

ETA: My bad. Sorry, jasonw. That's so weird that's a word.

 

[Bill]

Spell check told you that "quitely" is a word?

Yep, it means 'entirely'.
Though it's not really used anymore.

 

[Madmarsha]

Yep, it means 'entirely'.

That's a real word? Well, color me surprised. (I just ran it through my court reporting software and dang if it didn't confirm this!!) This has not been a good showing by me in this thread. I must issue a full and utter retraction for any slander. I'm really, really sorry.

 

[NativeFan]

Ultimately what I want from you is like you admit were wrong about Brady

Too soon. We have to wait until the season is over. You just said anything can happen. Tampa Bay could implode, New England could get hot, etc etc. Six weeks does not a season make.

And what does

I never said that they prove everything. In fact, I’ve been quite clear about that. But you also can’t dismiss them out of hand (as you continue to do) just because they are inconvenient.

And then you once again go to cite your own numbers, as if team success tells the whole story of how an individual played. It doesn’t work that way.

We absolutely would have had more playoff success (and probably championships) even we didn’t have such terrible defenses for so many years. Our defenses were so bad for so long that we couldn’t even MAKE the playoffs, despite having one of the best qb’s and offenses in the league.

It is crazy that you are so willing to look past that fact, as well as statistics (as an indicator of production and efficiency), in favor of your narrative.

You are all about team success (or failure) when it helps you, but then you just kinda brush aside the whole “team part”.

We have not had "terrible" defenses the past three previous seasons under any objective measure. However if you believe we have I'm willing to hear your case.

 

[NativeFan]

That's a real word? Well, color me surprised. (I just ran it through my court reporting software and dang if it didn't confirm this!!) This has not been a good showing by me in this thread. I must issue a full and utter retraction for any slander. I'm really, really sorry.

The HMS Indefatigable was quite a ship in her day...

 

[Madmarsha]

The HMS Indefatigable was quite a ship in her day...

Really, Giselle? I don't remember that boat. But the HMS Indomitable was quite illustrious.

(I hate Twitter but dang I love Google)

 

[Loco Hornet Fan]

Too soon. We have to wait until the season is over. You just said anything can happen. Tampa Bay could implode, New England could get hot, etc etc. Six weeks does not a season make.

And what does


We have not had "terrible" defenses the past three previous seasons under any objective measure. However if you believe we have I'm willing to hear your case.

I didn’t say that about the past 3 seasons. You know I didn’t say that.

But they absolutely came up short in 2011 and 2017, when Brees pretty much had the game locked up with under a minute left.

And we HAVE had terrible defenses for most of Brees’ tenure here, and it HAS affected us in the playoffs (way more than any of Brees’ shortcomings).

Anything else about why Peyton Manning gets credited as an all-time great playoff performer, but Brees stinks and isn’t clutch? Nothing to do with the defensive side of the ball?

 

[NativeFan]

I didn’t say that about the past 3 seasons. You know I didn’t say that.

But they absolutely came up short in 2011 and 2017, when Brees pretty much had the game locked up with under a minute left.

And we HAVE had terrible defenses for most of Brees’ tenure here, and it HAS affected us in the playoffs (way more than any of Brees’ shortcomings).

Anything else about why Peyton Manning gets credited as an all-time great playoff performer, but Brees stinks and isn’t clutch? Nothing to do with the defensive side of the ball?

Dude I just threw in Manning's name because others put him up there in the GOAT conversation and you're really like keying in that so hard for some reason.

 

[Loco Hornet Fan]

Dude I just threw in Manning's name because others put him up there in the GOAT conversation and you're really like keying in that so hard for some reason.

“For some reason”.

Because it is a perfect example of how inconsistent you are with which qb’s are good playoff performers or not, as well as exposes how you continue to overlook how other team factors affect playoff success (or failure).

The fact that you don’t have an answer speaks volumes. “I randomly threw Manning in there because he is a hall of famer” doesn’t hold water because Brees meets that criteria too. And as I pointed out, he is an objectively better playoff qb than Manning (but doesn’t get the same benefits of the doubt from you).

Manning has over twice the amount of turnovers as touchdowns (in both super bowl runs) and he is apparently an awesome playoff player who has all of the “stories” and “moments”, even though it was (despite him being a great player) objectively his defenses that dragged him to 2 titles. But Brees can throw 4 touchdowns and score go-ahead touchdowns TWICE in the final 4 minutes of the game, including with 1:48 left, but he “choked” and “can’t get it done”. It is silly.

And it doesn’t matter what level “others” put Manning at when it comes to the playoffs. YOU made the argument that he’s up there with the best playoff qb’s ever, and used him as evidence of a post-season performer that Brees hasn’t/can’t reach. Your words, your argument. And it exposed all of the flaws.

You don’t need to be coy or pretend to be surprised about why someone would point this out. “For some reason”, indeed.

 

[Devildog]

“For some reason”.

Because it is a perfect example of how inconsistent you are with which qb’s are good playoff performers or not, as well as exposes how you continue to overlook how other team factors affect playoff success (or failure).

The fact that you don’t have an answer speaks volumes. “I randomly threw Manning in there because he is a hall of famer” doesn’t hold water because Brees meets that criteria too. And as I pointed out, he is an objectively better playoff qb than Manning (but doesn’t get the same benefits of the doubt from you).

Manning has over twice the amount of turnovers as touchdowns (in both super bowl runs) and he is apparently an awesome playoff player who has all of the “stories” and “moments”, even though it was (despite him being a great player) objectively his defenses that dragged him to 2 titles. But Brees can throw 4 touchdowns and score go-ahead touchdowns TWICE in the final 4 minutes of the game, including with 1:48 left, but he “choked” and “can’t get it done”. It is silly.

And it doesn’t matter what level “others” put Manning at when it comes to the playoffs. YOU made the argument that he’s up there with the best playoff qb’s ever, and used him as evidence of a post-season performer that Brees hasn’t/can’t reach. Your words, your argument. And it exposed all of the flaws.

You don’t need to be coy or pretend to be surprised about why someone would point this out. “For some reason”, indeed.

And that's the whole crux of this so-called "discussion." Brady and Manning have never had to deal with crap defenses that choked away games AFTER Brees got them into the lead.

 

[Scull11]

And that's the whole crux of this so-called "discussion." Brady and Manning have never had to deal with crap defenses that choked away games AFTER Brees got them into the lead.

Brady got the lead late in both Giant Superbowl losses, Defense obviously didn't hold it.

 

[Devildog]

Brady got the lead late in both Giant Superbowl losses, Defense obviously didn't hold it.

Yeah, the one team that had their number. Forget about all the others.

 

[Loco Hornet Fan]

Brady got the lead late in both Giant Superbowl losses, Defense obviously didn't hold it.

That’s not really an accurate summary at all.

In 2007 the Giants scored first and were leading for most of the game. Yes, the Pats scored to go up with a bit less than 3 min left, but the Giants answered right back.

In 2011 the Giants scored the final 13 points (the Patriots did not score at all in the 4th quarter).

1) This shows that regardless of how good a quarterback is, the defense has a big impact on the final score of the game.
2) “The defense didn’t hold it” is apparently an acceptable excuse for some qb’s, but not for Drew Brees.

 

[NativeFan]

“For some reason”.

Because it is a perfect example of how inconsistent you are with which qb’s are good playoff performers or not, as well as exposes how you continue to overlook how other team factors affect playoff success (or failure).

The fact that you don’t have an answer speaks volumes. “I randomly threw Manning in there because he is a hall of famer” doesn’t hold water because Brees meets that criteria too. And as I pointed out, he is an objectively better playoff qb than Manning (but doesn’t get the same benefits of the doubt from you).

Manning has over twice the amount of turnovers as touchdowns (in both super bowl runs) and he is apparently an awesome playoff player who has all of the “stories” and “moments”, even though it was (despite him being a great player) objectively his defenses that dragged him to 2 titles. But Brees can throw 4 touchdowns and score go-ahead touchdowns TWICE in the final 4 minutes of the game, including with 1:48 left, but he “choked” and “can’t get it done”. It is silly.

And it doesn’t matter what level “others” put Manning at when it comes to the playoffs. YOU made the argument that he’s up there with the best playoff qb’s ever, and used him as evidence of a post-season performer that Brees hasn’t/can’t reach. Your words, your argument. And it exposed all of the flaws.

You don’t need to be coy or pretend to be surprised about why someone would point this out. “For some reason”, indeed.

Oh man okay you clearly are just looking to pounce on stuff. Like it or not many many people who do football for a living has Manning on their short list for best quarterbacks and I can't just deny that or pretend it's not true.

Manning in his prime wasn't just an amazing qb but some people say he was the most dominant offensive player of any position. I can't just dismiss that or pretend it's not the case.

Flaws? Dude we're discussing our opinions. All opinions are "flawed" certaibly but you need to relax and stop nitpicking or trying so hard to find problems with me.

What do you want from me anyway? You want me to lie and say Brees has been a monster in the playoffs? He just hasn't and all you want to do is attack me while making excuses for him. This is getting old.

 

[NativeFan]

And that's the whole crux of this so-called "discussion." Brady and Manning have never had to deal with crap defenses that choked away games AFTER Brees got them into the lead.

He never got us a big lead the past 3 years. If he had we would have been in the Super Bowl. I've already shown that he was straight garbage in the first half of all three of those games. Don't tell me he got us some "lead" that the defense gave up. Don't tell me the defense threw that horrid pick in overtime.

The great ones get it done when it counts the most. Drew is an amazing quarterback until it counts! That's the story that's dogged him his entire career and you can pretend I'm the bad guy here but you can't deny that's the stigma surrounding his career.

He's not alone. Same for Rodgers. All the ability, tallent and stats... Few results. But unlike Brees at least he can legitimately say his defenses have utterly exploded in the playoffs. The Saints defense isn't giving up 35-40 points when Drews been losing these games for us.