Bushrod... (1 Viewer)

[Saint_Ward]

I agree; for a starting LT with 2 pro bowls on his resume, $8M per year is reasonable. Beatty just signed a $7.5M per year contract, so it sounds like Bushrod is base lining that deal. However, I don't think Bushrod will get that on the open market.

$8M is where his camp will start negotiations (assuming the original poster is accurate), it will be too rich for our taste, and he will test the market. Much like Jake Long he will be welcomed to a lukewarm tackle market and realize that he is worth $6M-$7M per year. I actually think we will offer him a deal similar to Beatty.

Well, it all depends on how that market shakes out. Could be higher than we think. Jake Long is coming off an injury, but when healthy is an Elite LT. Also, we get too hung up on the total salary and the per year average, which is almost meaningless. It's all about signing bonus and other guaranteed money.

I looked at 6 somewhat recent LT deals for high caliber players.

Joe Thomas - 10M/yr (8 yr 80.5M)
Jason Peters - 10.1M/yr
Jordan Gross - 9.4M/yr
D'Brickashaw - 9.2M/yr
Doug Free - 8M/yr
Michael Roos - 7.2M/yr (signed in 2008 though...)
Beatty - 7.5M/yr

So, you'll pretty much see two or three levels (depending on how you like to break it down). Basically there is a 7-8M/yr club and there is the 9-10M/yr club.

 

[insidejob]

To everyone saying Bushrod should walk for asking for a little more than the last year of his contract paid him, who is going to replace him? We know his replacement isn't on the roster and the draft is a crap shoot outside of the top 5.

Bushrod may not be the best tackle in the league but he isn't looking to get paid like that either. And most importantly, Bushrod has been healthy for us for a long time. Having a healthy, consistent LT is worth 8-9M when Drew Brees is your quarterback.

 

[guillermo]

I hate that Charles Brown has not panned out yet. The saints did their homework and protected themselves for this situation by drafting him, but it didn't work yet.

I know people may not like it but it will merit to take a look at DJ Fluker at #15. Worst case scenario, we have a massive guy for years to come to protect the right side, and just think the holes he and Jahri will make for our runners.

Best case scenario, we have something more. One thing is for sure, we may have a hole or not at left tackle, but certainly we need to improve our right tackle now. Strief is not getting any younger, or better.

 

[RaisingTheBar]

Again, Evans isn't making anything crazy for a LT. I'd rather he be asking for Evans' money vs Joe Thomas money!!!!

It is based off of the opinion that I do not think Bushrod is worth 8mil/year. Evans got like 8.1/year on average correct?

 

[Analyze This]

Problem is beatty is a much better tackle than bushrod. If he got 7.5 mln/year i think bushrod is worth 5 mln. Now, what he is worth is not what he will get paid, but still..i hope we don't stick with him for that much money

What are you referencing to determine this? Beatty had one good year (last year). Before that he was know as an injury prone project:

He missed 14 out of 48 possible games (Injury Prone?)
He started only 16 of 34 possible games (Not seen as a Full Time Starter?)

I'm don't have any OLine stats other than the above to reference, if you have more feel free to share. The stats above support the assumptions of injury prone and project (only starting 16 out of 34 games says he was not seen as a FT starter).

Well, it all depends on how that market shakes out. Could be higher than we think. Jake Long is coming off an injury, but when healthy is an Elite LT. Also, we get too hung up on the total salary and the per year average, which is almost meaningless. It's all about signing bonus and other guaranteed money.

I looked at 6 somewhat recent LT deals for high caliber players.

Joe Thomas - 10M/yr (8 yr 80.5M)
Jason Peters - 10.1M/yr
Jordan Gross - 9.4M/yr
D'Brickashaw - 9.2M/yr
Doug Free - 8M/yr
Michael Roos - 7.2M/yr (signed in 2008 though...)
Beatty - 7.5M/yr

So, you'll pretty much see two or three levels (depending on how you like to break it down). Basically there is a 7-8M/yr club and there is the 9-10M/yr club.

I do not think Bushrod is in the 9-10M/yr club and it sounds like he does not either. I think 6-7.5M is a good number for Bushrod.

If Bushrod is going to stick to 8M/yr we should sniff around the J. Long camp and see if he will accept 8M/yr. I know he has been injured a lot (lately) and his play has declined but at 8M/yr it would be a good get for us. He would benefit majorly from playing with Drew vs. Moore/Tannehill.

Another name to watch is Sebastain Vollmer. He is an elite RT that has played LT for NE before. He is injury prone also but if Bushrod sticks to 8M we could pay him top RT money 7M and move him to LT.

I agree with you about the total salary/average per year statement.

 

[Saint_Ward]

What are you referencing to determine this? Beatty had one good year (last year). Before that he was know as an injury prone project:

He missed 14 out of 48 possible games (Injury Prone?)
He started only 16 of 34 possible games (Not seen as a Full Time Starter?)

I'm don't have any OLine stats other than the above to reference, if you have more feel free to share. The stats above support the assumptions of injury prone and project (only starting 16 out of 34 games says he was not seen as a FT starter).



I do not think Bushrod is in the 9-10M/yr club and it sounds like he does not either. I think 6-7.5M is a good number for Bushrod.

If Bushrod is going to stick to 8M/yr we should sniff around the J. Long camp and see if he will accept 8M/yr. I know he has been injured a lot (lately) and his play has declined but at 8M/yr it would be a good get for us. He would benefit majorly from playing with Drew vs. Moore/Tannehill.

Another name to watch is Sebastain Vollmer. He is an elite RT that has played LT for NE before. He is injury prone also but if Bushrod sticks to 8M we could pay him top RT money 7M and move him to LT.

I agree with you about the total salary/average per year statement.

If we take a chance on someone else who might get injured, I'd put money on us drafting a LT in the first or 3rd round. Charles Brown is not the answer so far.

 

[Analyze This]

If we take a chance on someone else who might get injured, I'd put money on us drafting a LT in the first or 3rd round. Charles Brown is not the answer so far.

I think that is a given (that we draft a LT somewhere in this years draft).

 

[SAINTSFAN]

I hate that Charles Brown has not panned out yet. The saints did their homework and protected themselves for this situation by drafting him, but it didn't work yet.

I know people may not like it but it will merit to take a look at DJ Fluker at #15. Worst case scenario, we have a massive guy for years to come to protect the right side, and just think the holes he and Jahri will make for our runners.

Best case scenario, we have something more. One thing is for sure, we may have a hole or not at left tackle, but certainly we need to improve our right tackle now. Strief is not getting any younger, or better.

I do not see Fluker as a LT. He would fit as a RT. I would think we would want to address the LT moreso than RT.

 

[Frank The Rat]

if true......ROTFLMBO! That right there is comedy gold!

 

[Euphonetiks]

I'm not sure you can say that it is clear the Saints value guards more than Tackles. We let J. Brown walk in FA, because he was coming off a hip injury. He didn't sign a huge money deal with the Redskins. And they viewed Bushrod as a capable replacement. Then they signed him to a short term deal. He probably didn't like the long term deal and he wanted to be able to create a market for himself.

We already had Stinch on contract, so we never negotiated a new one with him. Strief didn't even have a market yet, so we were able to get him for the cheap. He's not an elite RT, but he's good enough. We knew Evans was a gem so we signed him accordingly. We would have done the same for Nicks, but couldn't afford it, and we paid Grubbs because he's worth it.

Bushrod got a short deal worth 5M a year on average. Top NFL tackles are getting 9-10M per year. So, Bushrod knows he's not a Joe Thomas, but asking for around 7-8M per year is reasonable. And his cap hit the first few years won't be near that.

So, I don't think it has to do with how the Saints value the Tackle position, as much as how we valued the specific players. They'll assign a value for Bushrod and he'll either take the deal or chance it out on the street.

Whens the last time we had below average guards? Compare that to playing with below average RT and average LT. If we valued the tackle positions, Streif would never have started for us. He would be back-up and in on jumbo packages.

 

[Saint_Ward]

Whens the last time we had below average guards? Compare that to playing with below average RT and average LT. If we valued the tackle positions, Streif would never have started for us. He would be back-up and in on jumbo packages.

I think the major difference is that we have no backup guard that the team was willing to start, so we had to get one with Nicks left.

Before that we got lucky on two draft picks. Since SP got her, we've really just let 3 guys walk, 1 guy was injured and retired, and the other got injured and lost his job to Evans.

We've let J. Brown walk in FA, because he was hurt and Bushrod did a good enough job backing him up. So, now we had a solid starter and no need to spend a lot of money on an improvement, but we did draft an OT in the second round to possible win that spot.

We let Jeff Faine walk, because he was just asking for too much. We had Goodwin as a backup and SP thought he was good enough to replace him. He was. Then, when Goodwin left, we didn't like Tennant, so we quickly got the guy from the Bears. he stunk and luckily we had DLP as a backup and he did well for us.

We let Nicks walk, but had no real great backup at the guard position, and there were a couple FA's out there and we ended up getting a good deal on Grubbs. We wanted to keep Nicks, but couldn't.

When Nesbit got hurt, Evans took over and did a great job. He's anchored it down.

When Stinch got hurt, it was a battle between Strief and Brown for that RT spot. Strief won it at first, then got hurt. Brown was horrible!!!!! Strief at least holds his own most of the time. he's not a bad RT. He's not elite either. But I don't think he's bad enough that you go out in FA and try to sign a top OT to replace him. You keep drafting OT's and let them beat the vet.

So, now we have a possibility of an OT leaving. We currently do not have anyone on the roster as a worthy replacement. Not sure what happened to C. Brown, but he's likely not the answer. So, we'll have to replace or re-sign Bushrod. Now, if we lose out on Bushrod and Jake Long.. who's out there? Will we try to draft one in the 1st round? We'll see how much we value a LT in that scenario.

but to answer your question, I'm not sure we ever had below average guards, but 2006 would likely have been our "worst" year.

 

[LSSpam]

We actually traded J Brown I think. Just to be fair.

 

[nelopiceral1]

These guys are pricing themselves out of work. He's probably worth 7-8 mil a year, but just about every team is right up against the salary cap. How many vets around the league are getting cut or traded not because of talent but because of their cap burden? Owners don't have issues paying these guys, but the cap is increasing at a snails pace. You can wish in one hand and...you know how the rest of that phrase goes.

What's better, making a boat load of money and wasting away in a losing situation like MJD, or still making respectable money and winning a lot of games?

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

We actually traded J Brown I think. Just to be fair.

To the redskins for a 6th i think?

Terron Armstead with the 3rd if hes there or Sign a Veteran like Will Svitek or Winston Justice.


I dunno..but siging Bushrod to a relatively fair contract should be our first priority. However, with him making 2 consecutive probowls after only commanding a 2year 10mil deal last time he was available he has at least upped his stock a little bit. Im sure because of the probowl hes expecting a little more..and some team will want to pay him for it. Will it be us..i hope not. Any LT we end up even if its Bushrod if we want to protect them we should run the ball more. I hope thats the plan more than anything this offseason. to get th run game going

 

[birdog]

Everything I have seen from C Brown is that he could do a very similar job like Bushrod. The problem with Charlie Brown is that he is injury prone. But I would rather play CB, and yes....prop him out just as much we helped out Bushrod. I bet he would do every bit as good as Bushrod.

For what I have seen, Bushrod needs massive help to stay upright. With all that help, C Brown would do every bit as good as Bushrod.