Saints Buy or Sell: Jameis Winston (Good debate from CBS Sports) (2 Viewers)

Taker597

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I long for the days not so long ago that I could count on Winton being in a Bucs uniform on Sunday, and I could (with almost near certainty) put a W on the schedule next to Tampa twice a year (with a sharpie) almost solely because he was their starting QB... and not have to think about the prospects of the fans in Tampa doing that to my team in some sort of nightmarish reversal of twilight-zone fortunes.
That’s funny because that didn't change when Winston left. And we basically had them in the playoffs before we collapsed.
 

Infoman

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That’s funny because that didn't change when Winston left. And we basically had them in the playoffs before we collapsed.
Yes it did... Did we still win both regular season games....? Yeah... Did we win the 3rd one that mattered....? No.... Can you mark that "W" on your calendar with a Sharpie now that Tom Brady is the QB...? Hell no!

Pointless points are still pointless. It's no coincidence that Tampa immediately won a SB when Winston was replaced with a real QB... Not even a little.
 

Saint Spud

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Yes it did... Did we still win both regular season games....? Yeah... Did we win the 3rd one that mattered....? No.... Can you mark it on your calendar with a Sharpie now that Tom Brady is the QB...? Hell no!

Pointless points are still pointless. It's no coincidence that Tampa immediately won a SB when Winston was replaced with a real QB... Not even a little.
Its also not debatable that Tampa changed their offense around to cater to Brady’s strengths. Not even a little.

It’s also not debatable that they added a significant amount of talent to cater to Brady’s strengths. Not even a little.

It’s also not debatable that Jameis learned a lot this past season in NO. His interview where he discussed the necessity to be more vocal about what he likes is a direct reflection of how Payton runs his QB meetings (and how things did NOT go while he was in Tampa).
 

Infoman

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Its also not debatable that Tampa changed their offense around to cater to Brady’s strengths. Not even a little.

It’s also not debatable that they added a significant amount of talent to cater to Brady’s strengths. Not even a little.

It’s also not debatable that Jameis learned a lot this past season in NO. His interview where he discussed the necessity to be more vocal about what he likes is a direct reflection of how Payton runs his QB meetings (and how things did NOT go while he was in Tampa).
What season did you watch...? The theme all year was that Brady "struggled" nearly all season with that same Bruce Arians offense that pushed the ball down field... (News at 11... What's wrong with the Bucs and Brady?!?!) The same one Winton completely flopped in. Evens so, Brady's "struggles" in that same offense produced half the turnovers, and 50% more wins.

It wasn't until the end of the season / playoffs that things settled into Brady's strengths somewhat... even then... they were pushing the ball a ton more that Brady wanted.

They added talent... old busted talent... an out of the league AB... A retired and shell of a cripple Gronk... and a freshly cut and on the street Fournette... None of them were close to a real factor until after we played them during the season... and certainly they all played way above their heads in the playoffs.

Outside of that... Tampa was already a very talented team on Offense and Defense when Winston was there... He literally kept them out of the playoffs - and that's why they cut him. That is hardly debatable... and has only been attempted by people here after Sean gave him a charitable chance at reclamation last season.

I fell like Luke Skywalker over here... All of what you said is not only debatable... It's not true.

The things that made Brady the eventual difference maker in Tampa was his ability to keep the turnovers and horrid decisions from killing his team in the biggest games, during the worst possible times, and with the biggest things at stake... which is how Winston conversely doomed that team.
 
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Saint Spud

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What season did you watch...? The theme all year was that Brady "struggled" nearly all season with that same Bruce Arians offense that pushed the ball down field... (News at 11... What's wrong with the Bucs and Brady?!?!) The same one Winton completely flopped in. Evens so, Brady's "struggles" in that same offense produced half the turnovers, and 50% more wins.

It wasn't until the end of the season / playoffs that things settled into Brady's strengths somewhat... even then... they were pushing the ball a ton more that Brady wanted.

They added talent... old busted talent... an out of the league AB... A retired and shell of a cripple Gronk... and a freshly cut and on the street Fournette... None of them were close to a real factor until after we played them during the season... and certainly they all played way above their heads in the playoffs.

Outside of that... Tampa was already a very talented team on Offense and Defense when Winston was there... He literally kept them out of the playoffs - and that's why they cut him. That is hardly debatable... and has only been attempted by people here after Sean gave him a charitable chance at reclamation last season.

I fell like Luke Skywalker over here... All of what you said is not only debatable... It's not true.
They added Wirfs, Antonio Brown, Gronk and Leonard Fournette. All of whom were vital in their late season run.

If you don’t want to believe what I posted, that’s fine. But there are undeniable facts backing up everything in the post.
 

bernnjulie

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Everyone is saying, "Coach P can teach Jameis to avoid the mistakes....He's not going to throw 30 interceptions....He's going to be more mature....He was in the wrong system....etc"

Why is it that Jameis can be fixed, but Taysom can't?

Taysom has only started 4 games in the NFL. Prior to that, his last start was 5 years ago, in 2016, at BYU.

Here's some cool stats for Taysom's first 4 games:
82 for 114 pass attempts. 72%
834 yards passing.
209 yards rushing.
3 wins/1 loss
Extrapolate that to 16 games: 3336 yards passing/834 yards rushing. 12-4 record.


First 4 games of Josh Allen's career: (he also had a full preseason. Taysom didn't)
55/103 pass attempts. 53%
666 yards passing
117 rushing.
1 win/ 3 losses
Season stats: 2074 yards passing, 631 yards rushing, 53% completions.




Taysom has the "IT" factor. I'm not sure if Jameis does.
 

meily

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Great arm and athleticism. He was not a very smart QB. He made some really questionable mistakes and it got more and more common once teams got more film on him. Winston has a very good arm and not nearly the athleticism of Brooks. He just needs to prove he can learn from his mistakes and be smart on the field.

He was a better player when Mike McCarthy was the offensive coordinater, then Haslett got a hold of the direction of the offense and we did not spread the ball out as much and played a lot two 2 tightend formations and Haslett wanted the offense to be a ground and pound offense with Duece when initially you saw Brooks having 4-5 wide.
 

Taker597

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Yes it did... Did we still win both regular season games....? Yeah... Did we win the 3rd one that mattered....? No.... Can you mark that "W" on your calendar with a Sharpie now that Tom Brady is the QB...? Hell no!

Pointless points are still pointless. It's no coincidence that Tampa immediately won a SB when Winston was replaced with a real QB... Not even a little.
LOL. That's a whole lot of reaching, because the Bucs where awful in the regular season against winning teams outside of green Bay. It took Washington losing its QB. Drew Brees throwing 3 awful picks. Green Bay being a bunch of choke artists with Brady throwing 3 2nd half picks. Also, Chiefs Oline being wiped out by injury. Bucs took advantage of opportunities. Brady was pretty worthless till they changed the offense mid season and played against a lot of garbage teams.
 

big screen D

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Jameis Winston was the first pick in the draft. Aaron Brooks was drafted in the 4th round and traded to the Saints for a lollipop and a snickers.
Winston won't beat out a free agent named Hill. Draft status is meaningless. Though to be fair, Winston has had a better career than some other 1st round picks such as JaMarcus Russell and Heath Schuler.
 

sfidc3

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Winston is a poor mans Aaron Brookes. I really think Brookes would beat out Winston if they were in a head to head QB challeng.
Actually in hind sight I think had Brooks played with a competent offensive staff I think he would have had a lot more success with the Saints. Just as Meily points out below....

Jamies is only 27, we don't know what he is yet, there is talent there no question. It all depends on if you think SP can help him become better, I think he can, but at this point we still have to sign him....

He was a better player when Mike McCarthy was the offensive coordinater, then Haslett got a hold of the direction of the offense and we did not spread the ball out as much and played a lot two 2 tightend formations and Haslett wanted the offense to be a ground and pound offense with Duece when initially you saw Brooks having 4-5 wide.
 

donato

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Jameis Winston was the first pick in the draft. Aaron Brooks was drafted in the 4th round and traded to the Saints for a lollipop and a snickers.
Funny, but Saints spent a third rounder on him which isn't nothing.
 

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