Saints Buy or Sell: Jameis Winston (Good debate from CBS Sports) (2 Viewers)

[Tony1Saintfan]

Except there is. Doesn’t matter how clean the pocket is if he’s not comfortable with the plays or scheme.

Just like it doesn’t matter how comfortable he is with the scheme if he doesn’t have a clean pocket, or at least reasonable time to throw.

It all matters. It all works together.

I have to disagree with you. Being comfortable in the pocket or not his decision making is just bad. I mean any kid who is on scholarship and the star player of the team who goes out and steal crab legs isn’t making good decisions. That carried over to the field. When he was coming out of college I didn’t think he was a first round pick and I think most people on here thought he was a joke at Tampa. I know I looked forward to playing them because he sucked and was usually good for at least 1 pick in the game.

 

[I'm Him...]

What season did you watch...? The theme all year was that Brady "struggled" nearly all season with that same Bruce Arians offense that pushed the ball down field... (News at 11... What's wrong with the Bucs and Brady?!?!) The same one Winton completely flopped in. Evens so, Brady's "struggles" in that same offense produced half the turnovers, and 50% more wins.

It wasn't until the end of the season / playoffs that things settled into Brady's strengths somewhat... even then... they were pushing the ball a ton more that Brady wanted.

They added talent... old busted talent... an out of the league AB... A retired and shell of a cripple Gronk... and a freshly cut and on the street Fournette... None of them were close to a real factor until after we played them during the season... and certainly they all played way above their heads in the playoffs.

Outside of that... Tampa was already a very talented team on Offense and Defense when Winston was there... He literally kept them out of the playoffs - and that's why they cut him. That is hardly debatable... and has only been attempted by people here after Sean gave him a charitable chance at reclamation last season.

I fell like Luke Skywalker over here... All of what you said is not only debatable... It's not true.

The things that made Brady the eventual difference maker in Tampa was his ability to keep the turnovers and horrid decisions from killing his team in the biggest games, during the worst possible times, and with the biggest things at stake... which is how Winston conversely doomed that team.

Did you miss those 3 interceptions that Brady threw in the NFC Championship game??? The DEFENSE won in the playoffs for the "sucks"!!!

Oh yea, all those cast offs, scored every touchdown in the Super Bowl?! You may need that Lasik surgery like Jameis, so you can watch him be QB1 for the SAINTS!!!

 

[I'm Him...]

Everyone is saying, "Coach P can teach Jameis to avoid the mistakes....He's not going to throw 30 interceptions....He's going to be more mature....He was in the wrong system....etc"

Why is it that Jameis can be fixed, but Taysom can't?

Taysom has only started 4 games in the NFL. Prior to that, his last start was 5 years ago, in 2016, at BYU.

Here's some cool stats for Taysom's first 4 games:
82 for 114 pass attempts. 72%
834 yards passing.
209 yards rushing.
3 wins/1 loss
Extrapolate that to 16 games: 3336 yards passing/834 yards rushing. 12-4 record.


First 4 games of Josh Allen's career: (he also had a full preseason. Taysom didn't)
55/103 pass attempts. 53%
666 yards passing
117 rushing.
1 win/ 3 losses
Season stats: 2074 yards passing, 631 yards rushing, 53% completions.




Taysom has the "IT" factor. I'm not sure if Jameis does.

Let's ignore the fact that his 72% was against the 31st ranked pass defense twice...Let's ignore his historic pace he was on with the fumbles...Let's ignore the fact that he's 30, and can't read defenses...I'll STOP!!!

 

[I'm Him...]

Winston won't beat out a free agent named Hill. Draft status is meaningless. Though to be fair, Winston has had a better career than some other 1st round picks such as JaMarcus Russell and Heath Schuler.

Why bring him back if Taysom is going to be the starter? You think Jameis would sign back with the SAINTS if he really had to be in "QB Compettiton"? SMH!!!

 

[I'm Him...]

I think this clears up just how bad he was at Tampa. There is no scheme that is going to make him magically be able to read the defense.

So Jameis had 153 interceptions in 2019? This makes no sense!!!

 

[Tony1Saintfan]

So Jameis had 153 interceptions in 2019? This makes no sense!!!

No I think he was just breaking the 30 ints in the way they happened

 

[Taker597]

I'm trying to figure out how

I think this clears up just how bad he was at Tampa. There is no scheme that is going to make him magically be able to read the defense.

So, you're telling me if you have to most INT in a given year. You'll probably have the most situational INTS too... Riveting tale, sir. I don't think anyone could of figured that one out.

 

[Infoman]

70 starts... 28 wins.... 42 Loses.... Throws picks in his sleep... Was owned in our division for 5 seasons... I don't get the fanboyishness....

If Jameis had not been given a charity/reclamation roster spot last season by Sean... and let's say the Falcons were now openly pursuing him as a replacement for Matt Ryan...

The overwhelming sentiment here would be one of hilarious laughter and joy in the Falcons complete lack of foresight and imminent misfortune...

Yet we are having a discussion about him being a potential replacement for Brees....???

This discussion just over a year ago would have gotten you laughed off the planet... and now all of a sudden... he has a cheering section?

You know what has changed or been accomplished when it matters since he left Tampa... Nada!

If we have nothing else to choose from... I'll give him a super short rope of a chance to prove me wrong (simply because I trust Sean, and I love the Saints)... but the fanboyishness is super suspect, and silly.

 

[Tony1Saintfan]

I'm trying to figure out how

So, you're telling me if you have to most INT in a given year. You'll probably have the most situational INTS too... Riveting tale, sir. I don't think anyone could of figured that one out.

The only thing I was doing was pointing out the numerous ways he sucked. Are you saying that you didn’t think he sucked at Tampa or you secretly wanted him as our starting QB? I never wanted him to be part of our team in anyway. Also if he was good enough to be our starter then why didn’t CSP put him in when Drew got injured? If he didn’t know our offense good enough to play by then that’s on him.

 

[SaintPrime]

I rarely post here because I’m a lifelong Bucs fan, but that also means I’ve watched more Jameis than most. Here is my opinion after 5 years of Winston.

Winston has the arm talent in spades, but that has never been in doubt by anyone who watched him. What he has always lacked was good decision making in the heat of the game. When under fire with 3 options:

1) throw it to his #1 receiver in double coverage who may score,
2) Throw it to a checkdown who can pick up yards or
3) Throw it away due to down & distance

Winston will choose #1 nearly every time. This isn’t to knock him as it’s just who he is. In his mind Winston sees himself as Patrick Mahomes. That QB who will hold on to the last possible second to make a play and it works the majority of the time. Unfortunately for Winston he is not Mahomes and won’t even recognize that Mahomes contributed to the Super Bowl loss by doing EXACTLY what Winston does. If Mahomes committed to taking the open underneath routes the game would have been competitive.

If Sean Payton has figured out how to make Winston check it down and throw it away you’ll have a good quarterback. The fact that Payton went with Hill instead of Winston this year makes me think Winston has not learned that lesson just yet.

 

[Jesse Custer]

If Sean Payton has figured out how to make Winston check it down and throw it away you’ll have a good quarterback. The fact that Payton went with Hill instead of Winston this year makes me think Winston has not learned that lesson just yet.

Or, and just hear me out because this is a heavy concept: he went with the guy he promised the backup position to, committed a pretty decent contract to, and who's been familiarized with the passing concepts for four years over the guy who didn't get an offseason program.

 

[Tony1Saintfan]

I rarely post here because I’m a lifelong Bucs fan, but that also means I’ve watched more Jameis than most. Here is my opinion after 5 years of Winston.

Winston has the arm talent in spades, but that has never been in doubt by anyone who watched him. What he has always lacked was good decision making in the heat of the game. When under fire with 3 options:

1) throw it to his #1 receiver in double coverage who may score,
2) Throw it to a checkdown who can pick up yards or
3) Throw it away due to down & distance

Winston will choose #1 nearly every time. This isn’t to knock him as it’s just who he is. In his mind Winston sees himself as Patrick Mahomes. That QB who will hold on to the last possible second to make a play and it works the majority of the time. Unfortunately for Winston he is not Mahomes and won’t even recognize that Mahomes contributed to the Super Bowl loss by doing EXACTLY what Winston does. If Mahomes committed to taking the open underneath routes the game would have been competitive.

If Sean Payton has figured out how to make Winston check it down and throw it away you’ll have a good quarterback. The fact that Payton went with Hill instead of Winston this year makes me think Winston has not learned that lesson just yet.

That’s exactly what I have been sayin.g. I don’t think Vince Lombardi could coach a player into making good decisions with the ball. I think that’s something you either have or you don’t. I watched a video of all of his interceptions from 2019 and I don’t think there were any that you could say the db just made a great play on.

 

[Tony1Saintfan]

Or, and just hear me out because this is a heavy concept: he went with the guy he promised the backup position to, committed a pretty decent contract to, and who's been familiarized with the passing concepts for four years over the guy who didn't get an offseason program.

Not having the off-season program isn’t an excuse. He had been with the team long enough to know the offense. Now if you want to say his timing with the WR’s is off that would probably be true.

 

[Jesse Custer]

Not having the off-season program isn’t an excuse. He had been with the team long enough to know the offense. Now if you want to say his timing with the WR’s is off that would probably be true.

You're totally right. No offseason at all, no minicamps, no OTAs, no preseason games, completely new offense, new offensive philosophy...super simple and easy.

 

[Saint Spud]

Cam Jordan making a ton of sense.

"Jameis Winston up next is I believe what Sean Payton said. Sean wouldn't say he's fighting for Jameis to be back if our goal was to have Taysom (Hill)..."

Cam Jordan Weighs in on Saints Future Quarterback

Cam Jordan discussed all things Saints with team legend Morten Andersen, and his response on how the team's future at quarterback will look was quite interesting.

www.si.com